Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 12:27 AM

I wrote:

if I can't figure out how to make a clear file of it, perhaps you could fax a copy to me?

That's a typo. I meant MG, not me (I don't have a fax machine).

That selfsame MG wrote:

I think that you are right about the stressed syllables and perhaps why you have been frustrated by this program in the past...

Well, I've been a little bit frustrated by it, but of all the composing programs, it's the least frustrating so far... What I really need is a telepathic midi generator, that will translate what I hear in my head directly into a form that can be shared with others...

But I don't think that's been invented yet...

Jeri:

She lives in our hearts and the love that we share.
Let her song fill the air ??

Or maybe:

"We'll raise all our voices, let our joy fill the air!" ??

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 12:41 AM

It's been fascinating and fun to watch this song take shape here. Several days ago I gave the tune (as it then stood, anyway) to my roommate (organist at my Baptist church) to harmonize. He hasn't got it back to me yet, and it looks like Barry et al've done a thorough job of it anyhow, but if/when he does, I'll share his version too. Verne (my roommate) was all gung ho to have it sung in church until I pointed out the likelihood that some in the congregation might find the Goddess references unbaptistic ;-) ...

Haruo

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 01:26 AM

From Haruo:

(Hello, there, by the way! I don't believe I've had the pleasure...)

Verne (my roommate) was all gung ho to have it sung in church until I pointed out the likelihood that some in the congregation might find the Goddess references unbaptistic ;-) ...

LoL!

Though actually, I've often wondered why more Christians don't celebrate the Solstice as well as Christmas... After all, according to the Bible the very first blessing of Creation that God gave us was light itself.

And according to both Biblical and historical evidence Jesus was actually born in the spring (the only time sheperds would routinely "watch their flocks by night" is during the lambing season; and Ceasar held the census around the ides of March). But the early Christians decided to celebrate His birth around the solstice for 2 reasons. One reason was that it was already a customary day of celebration. But the other was symbolic: According to Christian teaching, Jesus, like the winter solstice sun, is the "Light that pierces the darkness."

Oh, and as for the last lines, how do these bounce against your minds' ears:

She lives in our hearts and the love that we share,
So raise all your voices, let your joy fill the air ??

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Barry T
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 02:10 AM

CapriUni> What I really need is a telepathic midi generator...

Oh, so you're the one who's been 'calling'! (LOL)

- - -

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 04:23 AM

Ann, PM me your fax # and I'll fax the Finale sheet music to you.  Feel free to share any of my comments with folks here if you like.  I just PMd them to you because I thought some of my comments/suggestions were outside the main point of this thread.

Ann, Funny, that's what Genie said, but when I cut the syllable from the lyrics, the words stop one note before the dots on the staff do...
If you take out that one syllable, you need to change the two half notes to one whole note.
Noteworthy Composer simply won't put a note on the staff unless there is a syllable (or pause symbol) to go with it.  Finale will let you do that.  (I can't use Noteworthy, since I have Mac.)

So, instead of "Raise up your / voices, Let sweet / songs fill the / air,"  you would have  "Raise up your / voice, Let sweet / song(s) fill the / air."  "...voice, Let sweet" is three quarter notes.

An alternative is "Raise all your voices, May sweet song fill the air."

I also like, "Raise all your voices, let your joy fill the air."  (Same # of syllables as in the other 3 verses, but more melodic words and less a tongue-twister.)

----Oh, I see you already zoomed in on that one, Ann.   (I told you great minds think alike, didn't I?  *BG*)

Genie

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 09:24 AM

I also like, "Raise all your voices, let your joy fill the air."

Or, here's a thought that came to me as I was getting ready for bed:

Do both-- Cut out a syllable, and make the ones that remain more melodious:

Raise all your voices, let joy fill the air!

I'll work on that later, right now, I need to get dressed so I can go to the supermarket.

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 09:28 AM

Barry T:

Oh, so you're the one who's been 'calling'! (LOL)

Don't tell me you've been rummaging around in my brain, Barry! I didn't get a chance to tidy up the place... I hope the spiders under my hypothalimus didn't bother you too much... ;-)

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 10:02 AM

If you change the - actually 2 6th notes to a quarter note, idn't it? - you'd have the right ratio of notes per syllable for the last verse only. Of course, you could always change "voices" to "voice" in every verse.

You could put "--" in for the missing syllable.

Now...
There's nothing wrong with using the same last line throughout the song. My guess is that if you sing this around a a bunch of singers, they'll pick up the last line and sing along. If you change the verse, you're going to have to give people hand signals or wiggle your eyebrows at them to let them know they have to be quiet for the last line because it's different.

So I favor using "So raise up your voices. Fill the air with sweet song!" as the last line of every verse.

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 12:24 PM

If you change the - actually 2 6th notes to a quarter note, isn't it?

No, it's two eighth notes

- you'd have the right ratio of notes per syllable for the last verse only. Of course, you could always change "voices" to "voice" in every verse.

You could put "--" in for the missing syllable.

Or, just treat the last line as a coda, and have it different for that melody line only (Which is what I've done, with NWC, just to see how it sounds. Sounds okay!

Now...
There's nothing wrong with using the same last line throughout the song. My guess is that if you sing this around a a bunch of singers, they'll pick up the last line and sing along. If you change the verse, you're going to have to give people hand signals or wiggle your eyebrows at them to let them know they have to be quiet for the last line because it's different.

So I favor using "So raise up your voices. Fill the air with sweet song!" as the last line of every verse.

Yes, but then it won't rhyme. Of course, there's no law that says it has to rhyme, but there's been at least a near rhyme all the way through, and a sharp left turn at the end, may make people double-take even more violently than share/air. So now, I thinking about changing the penultamite line:

Lessee: "She lives in our hearts, and her love makes us strong" scans okay, but that would mean using the strong/song rhyme twice in a row... Again, no law against that, but I'd prefer not to. How about: "She bides in our hearts, with us all the year long"?

Just a thought...

It really is easier to change the words than reposting all the midis!

...but YMMV

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: mg
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 12:33 PM

I would leave it as is and people will make modest adjustments of their own....at some point you have to call a job done and I think when the music and midi came out it was done, which doesn't mean that you an others can't modify it as needed...mg

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 01:00 PM

Alright then people! It was a typo, OK? Enny fule no that 1/8 + 1/8 = 1/4. Just a TYPO! And that part about the last line that didn't rhyme was a typo too. Yeah, that's right. (I need to stop writing stuff when I'm suffering from caffeine deficiency.)

And Mary's right - you have to call it done sometime.
But you could always just leave "Let" out and...oh, OK - I'll stop.

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 01:08 PM

at some point you have to call a job done and I think when the music and midi came out it was done

Okay, Mary!

(you know, I was just giving that exact same advice to someone else not too long ago... I just need to learn to take it ;-))

I do suggest, however, for those who want, or need, to drop a syllable from the last line, to drop "sweet", rather than the "-es" from "voices".

So the last line is:

"So raise up your voices, let songs fill the air",

with the melody line: E, D, C, D, F, E, D, C, D, B, C.

I'm a spoken word writer first, and nothing makes me climb the wall faster than an unneeded shift into or out of the plural.

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 04:25 PM

and I think when the music and midi came out it was done

Well, yes... But....

I'm thinking of submitting this to an online, Pagan literary e-zine called "Scribes of the Goddess" for the Yule issue (the 'zine has been defunct for a while, and is being re-animated, we hope, on or near, the solstice). I came to Mudcat to iron out the kinks before I submitted it. And the submission deadline is December 10, so in my heart of hearts I won't really thing it is completely "out there" until then...

Here's a link to a sample issue of that 'Zine

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: MMario
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 04:39 PM

(note: the following is intended to be humour.)

*sob* she's telling us we don't count! *wail!*

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 06:05 PM

*sob* she's telling us we don't count! *wail!*

Of Course you count, MMario! But, well, you understand that I am Pagan... and Pagans do things in threes. The song is not "truly out there" until I have shared it in three ways:

The first way is with the friends I see every day, face-to-face ("Hey, come listen to this this song I'm working on."). I did that last year, when I first got the idea for the song.

The second way is to ask for expert help on it, and share it with others who will mostly likely spread it to their circles. That's what I'm doing in this thread.

The third way is to share it with strangers in "the wide beyond"... That's what publishing in the e-zine will be.

Once the song has three legs, then it will stand on its own -- like a stool.

If it makes you feel any better, I wouldn't have considered it "truly out there" either if it had appeared in the e-zine but not on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: mg
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 11:58 PM

well, I did some passing around of it tonight..there are some people, like VC of Seattle that I can just hear singing it in my head...also Jon Bartlett if he is reading this...can you learn it for Sasamat? mg

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 10:39 AM

Okay. Thanks, Mary!

In the meantime, Genie has been wanting this song to have a longer refrain/chorus (Giving more of a change for large groups of people to join in), and I think I may have a chorus that also helps fix the singability problem in the last line.

What do you think of this?

Sample:

Give thanks to the God-dess, the sweet liv-ing Earth:
thanks for the cy-cle of death and re-birth.
She lives in our hearts, and the love that we share.
So raise all your voic-es, let song fill the air!

Oh,[E] sweet[G] song![C]
So raise all your voic-es, let song fill the air!
[Same melody as the first time]

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: mg
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 11:20 AM

I am of the opinion that it is great the way it is and it's just my philosophy I guess that once it is officially done, and you are the only one who can say it is or it isn't, it's best not to twiddle it to death. What came out of your heart and soul originally is probably the purest version. But I would encourage people to add their own choruses or whatever but keep the original as the original. mg

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 11:40 AM

What mary said.

Having a refrain or chorus, even if it's just a reprise of the last line or two of each verse, can be a great asset in a sing-along. In performance, it's not as important. And, yes, Ann, what really matters is what you want the song to be.

Genie

PS, Ann, can you add your chorus tune to one of the Finale Notepad files, or call my toll-free number and sing it for me? Thanks.

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 01:12 PM

PS, Ann, can you add your chorus tune to one of the Finale Notepad files, or call my toll-free number and sing it for me? Thanks.

I can but try!

BTW, how long can a message be on your voice mail? I only sang one verse, the last time, because I was afraid of getting cut off...

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 08:42 AM

Actually, I don't know how long my voice mail message can be, but I imagine it's at least a minute to 90 sec. You can always call again if you need two calls to finish the song. It's a free call. But you should be able to sing a couple of verses before it cuts off.

Genie

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 10:24 AM

Okay, then... I'll sing the first and last verses, with less intro this time.

And may I just say now that I have your carol stuck in my head?

I don't know whether to hug you, or :::thwaap::: you upside the head with a boingy foam rubber mallet! ;-)

The rhythm of the lines "Joyous! Joyous! Join the celebra-a-tion!" is especially catchy...

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Barbara
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 04:04 PM

Hi Ann,
Mary emailed me your carol, which made me realize why I'd bookmarked it it in the first place, it IS lovely, and can I use it in the San Francisco Folk Music Club newsletter? If so, my deadline is Dec 6, so I would need whatever you say your final version is by then.
Does it currently have a chorus? I'm not clear. And if the tune is different PM me, and I'll transcribe it or do whatever we need to do.
Also need to know if you prefer the plain a capella version (I think you said yes).
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 07:22 PM

Thanks, Ann (I think). My sister and I sang it together last night again, and I FINALLY got the rhythm just right, and her harmony is so great -- one of those times you could kick yourself for not having had the tape recorder going!

FWIW, I find myself humming/singing YOUR carol, too!

Cheers,

Genie

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 08:20 PM

Thanks, Ann (I think). My sister and I sang it together last night again, and I FINALLY got the rhythm just right, and her harmony is so great -- one of those times you could kick yourself for not having had the tape recorder going!

I think Jerry R. started a thread on that very topic, didn't he???

Meanwhile, I need to get a good tape recorder, that's easy to use...

BTW, have you heard back from Aine about getting your song into the songbook, yet?

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 09:31 PM

Dunno about the songbook yet, but MMario is doing a MIDI, bless his heart! I sent the sheet music to çine, but I don't know if she has Finale. Anyway, I now have posted my lyrics and chords in the forum, here

   Raise Your Voices In The Song (Christmas)

not to be confused with your "Raise All Your Voices" Solstice carol, Capri.

I haven't checked the songbook recently. Is your song in it yet?


Genie

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 10:06 PM

I haven't checked the songbook recently. Is your song in it yet?

I don't know... I haven't checked either... ;-)

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 03:30 AM

I did check, Capri. Neither song is there yet. But çine is still trying to recover from that nasty back injury she got pushing boulders up the Moon On The Hill. We've gotta give her time.

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: MMario
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 08:46 AM

I think I fixed the midi though

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 02:35 PM

Okay, this is the last alteration I'll over up for your critique, I promise!

I think I may have solved scansion problems of the last line in a way that fits the rest of the song, too... more or less -- realizing that, unlike a midi, when a human sings, no two notes are of the exact same duration, even if the dots are exactly the same. So a midi will never sound exactly right, just durned close.

Give this a listen, and/or a test sing. If your reaction is: "Yeah! That's right!", this will be the version I'll submit to Àine's Mudcat Songbook, and to Barbera for inclusion in San Francisco Folk Music Club newsletter. If your reaction is a "No, not quite," or "Maybe...," then I'll submit the version that Jeri put up on her webpage. But either way, no more fiddling after this. Deal?

(Oh, and it was brought to my attention, second handedly, that "return back from" is incorrect grammar. Now, I don't think songs have to be as grammatically correct as an essay, but if you can do it right without spoiling the sound, than why not do so? So I changed "back from" to "out of")

RAISE ALL YOUR VOICES
By Ann Magill

Come gather together and sing with glad hearts.
Sing for the sun's return out of the dark.
The wheel, it is turning, the dance, it goes on.
So raise all your voices, fill the air with sweet song!

Oh, sing with the Goddess: "The world is reborn,
shin-ing as bright as the very first morn!"
The old year has ended. Let go of old wrongs
and raise all your voices, fill the air with sweet song!

Though winter will bring us cold nights and fierce wind,
know by this dawning that hardship will end.
And like the sun's rays, may our hearts all grow strong.
Come raise all your voices, fill the air with sweet song!

Give thanks to the Goddess, the sweet living Earth:
thanks for the cycle of death and rebirth.
She lives in our hearts, and the love that we share.
So raise all your voices, may sweet song fill the air!

MIDI file: song02.mid

Timebase: 192

Name: All voices
Text: By Ann Magill
Copyright: Copyright © 2002 by Ann Magill
TimeSig: 3/4 24 8
Start
0000 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 67 110 0336 0 67 000 0048 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 60 110 0256 0 60 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 62 110 0336 0 62 000 0048 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 67 110 0160 0 67 000 0032 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 65 110 0256 0 65 000 0032 1 67 110 0094 0 67 000 0002 1 69 110 0160 0 69 000 0032 1 67 110 0336 0 67 000 0048 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 65 110 0160 0 65 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 64 110 0160 0 64 000 0032 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 60 110 0256 0 60 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 59 110 0160 0 59 000 0032 1 60 110 0336 0 60 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the latest version of MIDItext and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:All voices
M:3/4
Q:1/4=120
K:C
E2G2C2|C2E2G2|G2A2G2|F2G4|C2D2E2|F2E2D2|C3DE2|
D4E2|G2G2A2|G2F2E2|F3GA2|G4E2|D2C2D2|F2E2E2|
D2C3D|B,2C7/2||

---

Replaced MidiText file with newer version 19 Nov 02. --JoeClone

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 04:25 PM

I like it, Ann!

Genie

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 05:12 PM

I like it, Ann!

Good! It's not just me, then!

Yeah, I think this version sounds more balanced, rhythmically, and more "swingy" overall, if you know what I mean....

So, I'll submit an updated NWC file to MMario, and the lyrics to Àine or should I send her the midi, too?

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Haruo
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 10:23 PM

I've put a page illustrating my roommate's harmonization in La Lilandejo: Raise All Your Voices. However, the midi has serious problems. I'll work on it tonight; maybe it'll sound better tomorrow. Oh, and Ann, I'll let Tim know about "out of" ;-) ...

Haruo

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 11:08 PM

Ann, now Aine's name in your last post is coming up on my computer as and upside down "?" plus "ine." *G*

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Haruo
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 11:31 PM

How does "Àine" look here, Genie? On your computer, I mean; Ann's latest looked okay from my vantage point.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 11:36 PM

Yours came out fine, Haruo, except you used a grave accent, and I think çine uses an acute acccent. (Did her name come out OK on your computer just now?)

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 11:38 PM

Haruo:

I've put a page illustrating my roommate's harmonization in La Lilandejo: "Raise All Your Voices". However, the midi has serious problems. I'll work on it tonight

I tried to reply to your message about that in PM, but the page died when I hit submit... so I'll give a shorter reply here: One thing I've noticed on some multi-part midis is that the melody line is doubled, by having it play on two tracks at once. Maybe that would help...

Genie: now Aine's name in your last post is coming up on my computer as and upside down "?" plus "ine."

Life would be so much simpler if Bill 'n' Steve hadn't had that big ol' feud way back when, wouldn't it? ;-)

Subject: mutatis mutandem
From: Haruo
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 11:49 PM

Thanks, Ann, I'll try doubling if I can't get the chords to calm down. And I'll try to replace the melody line with your latest version, mutatis mutandem.

Genie, no, your post still reads çine. I wrote Àine instead of Áine because I couldn't recall which was correct (actually, it may depend on the grammatical case, I suppose; Gaelic's that way) and Àine was what Ann had in the previous post you commented on, the one that you said came out as ¿ for you.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: mmb
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 01:11 AM

I've been intending to check this thread out ever since it appeared, and what a loss it would have been if I hadn't finally gotten around to it. It is lovely, Ann, and haunting, in the good sense of the word. It will definitely be numbered among the tunes that are played from henceforth when I pull out all my Nowell Sing We Clear volumes to observe the Advent/Solstice season. Thank you for sharing it with us.    M.

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 09:24 AM

Life would be so much simpler if Bill 'n' Steve hadn't had that big ol' feud way back when, wouldn't it?

It's not just a Mac/Windows thing, though.  My sister's machine is Windows, and most of my Mudcat posts look the same on her machine as on my Macs, including the accent marks on names like Áine.

Speaking of MIDIS and sheet music, Haruo, did you get the Notepad sheet music I sent you?  I'm wondering about the process of makind MIDIS from Notepad files.
 

And, again, Ann, thanks for sharing your song.  It's a keeper.

Genie

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 11:23 AM

It will definitely be numbered among the tunes that are played from henceforth when I pull out all my Nowell Sing We Clear volumes to observe the Advent/Solstice season. Thank you for sharing it with us.

And thank you for playing it and passing it on. I don't mean to sound like a curmudgeon about this, and do the old whiney: "It's not like the Good Old Days, anymore!" routine...

But:

In my heart of hearts, I believe that the true spirit of the season is expressed through singing together (even more than going to church and/or Ritual Circle) -- even for the Deaf -- there's a different quality to signing a song then in signing ordinary conversation. There's something about singing that has a different energy than speach.

Perhaps it's because we're opening our bodies and minds to be resonant with all of existance... as though we're taking part in the Music of the Spheres. In speach, words (and the ideas they carry) are in tight, little discrete bundles. Speaking is the mode of the Ego -- the individual. Siniging is communal.

But these days, the habit seems to be (at least in my neighborhood) to put a CD on, and have it playing as auditory wall paper, while people talk over it... there's no joining in.

So, that's the idea I want spread around... whatever the religion being observed...

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: GUEST,Haruo
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 06:18 PM

Well, Ann 'n' everybody, I have improved though not perfected the MIDI of my roommate's harmonization at the copy in La Lilandejo. And I added a link to this thread, as well as a right-clickable link for those who may want a copy of the MIDI.

Genie, yes, I got the Notepad music file you sent, but haven't had a chance to try it yet because I haven't had a chance to use the church computer, which is where I downloaded Finale to (I don't have Internet access at home, which is where I would prefer to work on such stuff). I'll certainly let you know as soon as I have anything to report.

Haruo (at the public library)

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 10:50 AM

Well, Ann 'n' everybody, I have improved though not perfected the MIDI of my roommate's harmonization at the copy in "La Lilandejo". And I added a link to this thread, as well as a right-clickable link for those who may want a copy of the MIDI

Thank you, Haruo! I've right-clicked the file and will play around with it, later today (Got some non-sung writing to do... deadline is tomorrow!!!)

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: mg
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 02:30 AM

well, speaking of sign language..this is how ignorant I am..I saw some kids on the bus signing and I think their first language is Spanish..so I thought..gee, wonder if they are signing that in Spanish or English...but I guess it is universal..??? Or is it? I guess when you spell it out it would be in your own language...

mg

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 09:56 AM

well, speaking of sign language..this is how ignorant I am..I saw some kids on the bus signing and I think their first language is Spanish..so I thought..gee, wonder if they are signing that in Spanish or English...but I guess it is universal..??? Or is it? I guess when you spell it out it would be in your own language...

Well, that depends.... Some schools for the deaf (deaf -- with a lower case "d" -- refers only to not being able to hear, but with a capital "D" refers to the culture) make it a point to teach deaf people to pass, as much as possible, as hearing, and those schools tend to insist on Signed Exact English. where they take signed vocabulary and make it fit Englisg grammar and syntax (or I suppose, Spanish).

But sign language is a language in its own right, with it's own grammar and syntax that is spacially-based instead of temporally based (depending on where a sign is executed in 3-d space, rather than on when a word appears in a certain order). It is not, however, universal... just like spoken language, there are different sign languages all over the world (and no, not all signs look like what they mean, but if you know their origin, you can see the logic... just like knowing the derivation of spoken words).

American Sign Language, is, in fact, more closely related to French Sign Language than British. This is because Thomas Gallaudet, who founded the first free school for the deaf in America, learned how to do it after finishing a trip to France, to see how they did it there, and since most kids who are deaf come from hearing families, they learn their language in school, rather than at home...

So now that I think about it, those boys were probably signing either ASL or SEE (Since Spanish kids are pushed to learn English in American schools, anyway)

Oh, and another tidbit -- babies who grow up with Deaf parents, sign clearly about about 5 months sooner than they can speak -- because the muscles of the hands develop sooner than the muscles in the tongue and mouth (and before they sign, they do hand versions of "goo-goo")... Which is why, if I ever have a baby, I'm not gonna wait for the hearing test at a year to start signing.

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 11:40 AM

Ann, the MIDI in the Mudcat MIDI section sounds good, but it has one mistake. To fit the rhythm of the song the words "...fill the..." in the last line of each verse need to be eighth notes (and they are in Barry's MIDI and in the sheet music that Jeri posted).  In the Mudcat MIDI they are played as quarter notes, and it throws the rhythm off.  Maybe M. Mario can fix that.

Jeri ("...this is where I go into nit-picking mode - the B's in the 2nd track sound a bit odd when they come up against the C's in the 3rd. You've got to sneak some 'illegal' stuff in and most times the ear will be fooled into not hearing the naughty notes. It may just be me that's hearing it.")
I know that some chords sound dissonant-- especially on a piano--, but they are often used in choral music.  It's not at all unusual in our church choir to have a B and a C sung together at some point in the piece.
Interestingly, one song I wrote and recorded in 3-part harmony sounds really harmonious when I play the standard guitar chords (C, F, G, Am) and sing the three countermelodies together.  But when I plug those same countermelodies into the computer and they're played back with a simulated (sampled?) piano, some "chords" sound dissonant in an unpleasant way.
(If you get the Strawberry CD you can see what I mean.  The only sour note in the song is one place where I went flat on a harmony part while recording because I couldn't hear myself.  If anything, the harmonies themselves are almost too "sweet," to use Amos's term.  The countermelodies work well when sung together, though some of the harmony notes are "out of the chord.")

Is this an unusual phenomenon?
 

Ann,  ( is there a way to save Finale files as midis, the way you can with Noteworthy?)  Not with the freebie Notepad, but NotePad Plus ($25) and it lets you save a file as sheet music and/or MIDI, as well as play back MIDIs.

Genie

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 12:52 PM

Ann, the MIDI in the Mudcat MIDI section sounds good, but it has one mistake. To fit the rhythm of the song the words "...fill the..." in the last line of each verse need to be eighth notes

Actually, that's not a mistake... I made that change deliberately, and sent an updated version to MMario (after posting the change here, to see if it sounded right to others).

For the longest time, I couldn't figure out why people kept telling me there was an extra beat in the last line ("Raise all your voices, may sweet song fill the air."). Then (after singing the song over, and over, and over, both with and without the "extra" syllable) I realized that I was naturally singing the song in the rhythm as it is now -- or something very, very close to it. What I'm actually singing, on the three syllables of "...voic-es, fill..." (and "...voic-es, may...") is: quarter note--dotted eighth note--sixteenth rest--quarter note.

But that looks really fussy and confusing on a score, particularly if it's to be printed out and handed around to people at a holiday sing-along where not everyone is comfortable reading music. Depending on what instrument patch you stick at the beginning of the staff, the difference between the rhythm as I outlined it above and three quarter notes is barely noticable... so for print-out, I opted for the simpler-looking version, trusting any would-be singer to use the score only as a guide, and sing it in a way that comes naturally out of her or his mouth...

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Genie
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 08:46 PM

Well, Ann, it's your call. But I found it very hard to clap out a steady 3/4 beat while singing along with the MIDI on that last line. It's kinda like those pieces where your're singing in 3/4 while playing in 4/4 or vice versa. It's done, but it's not easy.

Genie

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: CapriUni
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 09:06 PM

I found it very hard to clap out a steady 3/4 beat while singing along with the MIDI on that last line.

Oh! :::Lightbulb clicks on:::

I didn't even consider clap-ability as a factor... but I'm not one to judge... I get tangled up trying to clap along to "Bingo (Was His Name-o!)"

Okay... So, assuming that Raise all your voices, may sweet song fill the air was the tag line for all four verses, how would you score that to fit a 3/4 time?

I hope this isn't coming across as snippy... I really am curious.

...or is it impossible?

Is this what we could call "music theory by the seat of your pants"?

Subject: RE: Winter Solstice Carol from CapriUni
From: Áine
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 08:24 PM

Hey Ann,

That is a great song -- Don't know how I missed seeing this thread (but then, I've been in and out and away with the little people on occasion these past few months *BG*) . . .

Anyways, a little bird whispered in my ear that this song should definitely be in the Mudcat Songbook, and I wholeheartedly agree! May I please have your permission to place it in the (lately renamed) Songs of Inspiration and Celebration category of the Book?

Here's hoping that you'll answer with a 'yes' ;-),

All the best, Áine