UK 60s Folk Club Boom?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 09:10 AM

I have to say , i had a good laugh at dave the gnomes comment telling me [that not every songwriter wrote about personal realationships], he seems to have forgotten i have written a few songs myself.
I am versatile enough to be able to do either unaccompanied or accompanied, which is more than some can do., it does require practice and effort

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 09:15 AM

"None of them are doing it cos they can't get on the X factor."
Tell that to teh people who put up superstars as an argument that the scee is doing well Al
You might start with Save's Wili entry and progress to the Observer list
Not a mention of those who slog away week after week
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 09:16 AM

Sorry - concentration slipped
Should read Dave's Wiki entry - dread to think what his Wili is !
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 11:09 AM

>>>>>>>They have no claim to be fork songs nor based on folk styles or objectives<<<<<<

Really?

Like you I know little about the other 3 performers/groups. I was actually praising the journalism as I did read the whole 5 pages.

However, I do know a fair bit about The Youn'uns who despite their rise to fame are firmly grounded in the folk club scene and the folk scene in general. Until recently they were a very good a capella trio singing largely traditional songs. you could say they have served a very worthy apprenticeship like most of our up-and-coming performers.

What interests me is your absolute confidence in your belief that their contemporary songs are nothing like those MacColl produced.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 11:31 AM

"firmly grounded in the folk club scene"
REALLY ?
Coulda fooled me, unless you are talking about what the present scene has become, which has littlee to do with the previous one, which in its turn was taking inspiration from source singers
"nothing like those MacColl produced."
I have never compared anybody's songs to MacColl's - he was one of many songwriters composing in folk forms - don't see much of that among this lot
I had only heard Lankum so I searched the rest out - hence my comments
A Capella refers to unacompanied music which is only a part of traditional singing, not a definition of it
Want to call your clubs a cappela clubs - fine by me, but you'll have to lose the yeboards and drums and double bases......
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 11:40 AM

"A Capella refers to unacompanied music" ???

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 11:43 AM

Yes, REALLY. This would have been welcome in any folk club I've been to in the last 50 years :

https://youtu.be/0clMlnU4gyQ

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 12:18 PM

I'm glad you had a good laugh, Dick. I like to give something back for all your hilarious posts :-)

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 12:32 PM

BTW, I hadn't forgotten that you had written some songs. I had no idea you had because, as I said before, I have no interest whatsoever.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 12:58 PM

Yes, REALLY. This woul"d have been welcome in any folk club I've been to in the last 50 years "
Are youi serious - that's the dullest non-traditional piece of singing I've ever heard in years (I think it was the last time I was in church - at a funeral
YOU PROBABLY WON'T LIKE THIS
NOR THIS

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 01:01 PM

You surprise me Dave, Dick's pretty good at what he does. Very good in fact. i should have thought you might have liked his stuff. Excellent instrumentalist.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 01:02 PM

AND YOU'LL DETEST THIS
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 01:12 PM

I shall never know, Al.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 01:16 PM

I'm beginning to understand more of where you're coming from now, Jim.
I was inspired by the Watersons in 1965 singing our English traditional songs. They are at the back of all the books I've written, songs I've collected, songs I've written latterly, all the albums I've been involved with, and all the many many projects I've been involved with. I now understand this means sod all to you. The field is all yours!

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 02:17 PM

"I was inspired by the Watersons in 1965 singing our English traditional songs. T"
The Wartersons produced a nice but limited sound which palled after a couple of songs because they sounded so samey and did much what much what the blokes above did - a note per syllable - 4 square s the term we used to use
You could march to what they did but that's about all - totally devoid of interpretation
I played the first tracks of 'Frost and Fire' but I don't think I played side two till some time later, I found it so disappointingly dull
I don't want a pissing match with you but we've all done something - you books, us radio programmes, lectures, albums of field recordings.... and a huge number of recordings, mainly of singers talking about their singing... from your description of my being "starry-eyed and naive" I don't suppose that means much to you
I don't care what you think of our work, the people who matter to us have told us what they think of it and have ascertained that whatever we did will be around long after we are gone, which, as far as I'm concerned, matters far more than any arguments we might have   
I value your work for what it is - the tracing of folk songs to their earliest printed sources
Beeyond that, I have no idea, but from what I've seen of the dwindling interest in traditional song I detect from these arguments, I wonder who is going to care in a decade's time
Mucjh of your work is contradicted by what you and others have put here as where folk song is in England today, instead of that depressing you (as it does me) you seem quite contented with the fact that those singers owe nothing to the singers we care about.

I chose those singers I put up fairly carefully - Elizabeth Cronin, a fine example of the earlier generation of Irish traditional singers, Len Graham, a singer who took his songs and style from the old singers, sang with them on tours, took them around the schools and did masses of work to preserve their songs and recordings
Last you have Nelí - Bess Cronin's great grand-daughter and the third of the family's generation
Neli is not alone - she' represents the new generation of singers of traditional songs - youngsters like her have already flocked to the music and now are beginning to take on the songs
When you can produce singers like those you can claim to ahve a future worth boasting about beats the dull group singing to march-time any day inn my book
MY MATE JOHN SINGING ONE OF HIS OWN SONGS
You can read his PhD on his family's singing tradition set in its social and geographical context in the next Folk Music Journal
Now that's something I would have been proud to have done
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 04:53 AM

I like all 4 of those clips, Jim, so don't you ever patronise me and tell me what I like and don't like. I'm done with this pointless discussion. I'm glad you've found your musical Mecca in Ireland. We'll just get on with it, here in the UK.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:08 AM

"I like all 4 of those clips, Jim, so don't you ever patronise me and tell me what I like and don't like."
I don't do thet with anybody
My argument is about what is suitable to be called folk - that's all
Personal tastes have no place in any of this - just judgements
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,Brimbacombe
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:15 AM

"The Wartersons produced a nice but limited sound which palled after a couple of songs because they sounded so samey and did much what much what the blokes above did... totally devoid of interpretation... etc..."

Is this not perilously close to the 'corpse kicking' that you are so keen to accuse others of, Jim? Of course it isn't, because it's you doing it this time.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:18 AM

Going right back to the name of the thread, I thought the 60's "folk club boom" was much inhabited by people playing Bob Dylan and Donovan songs or trying to play in the style of Bert Jansch or Davy Graham? I must admit it could be a mistaken impression as I did not come into folk clubs until the mid 70's.

No hidden agenda here. Just wondering if this was the case and, if so, how come the contemporary folk and even psychedelia of the 60's sat alongside traditional folk in harmony while now it seems to create such a controversy.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:36 AM

quote:- "My argument is about what is suitable to be called folk - that's all
Personal tastes have no place in any of this - just judgements."

That statement would have some merit if it were not for the fact that the only person who seems to be allowed to be in charge of making the decisions on these matters is the person who made that post. He talks about "judgements"; are all the other participants in this thread happy to accept the didactic pronouncements of the Miltown Malbay Magistrate as the sole arbiter of "what is suitable to be called folk"?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:37 AM

Not really. There were clubs like the Jolly Porter in Exeter that were very tradyy from the early 60's. And of course Bert was pretty traddy himself. Much of his repertoire was trad.

There were lots of trad songers like Tony rose, the Journeymen in Exeter, The Yetties. And of course the Spinners and the Corries were very big. The Dubliners had two hit records in the 1960's. As did Dominic Behan. The Yetties repertoire was most exclusively trad.

Out in the villages there were people like Bob Cann. Up north there was the Eliot family. Louis Killen. The young Tradition. carthy and The watersons.

Fred Jordan....that's just off the top of my head

But the music that was bringing people into the folk clubs undeniably was the Peter paul and mary/Dylan stuff. Also the Where have all the Flowers gone peacenik stuff. cos remember we all thought we were going up in an atomic bomb pretty soon.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:59 AM

Big Al. I think Joan Baez deserves a mention.



https://www.officialcharts.com/artist/11750/joan-baez/

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 06:23 AM

"But the music that was bringing people into the folk clubs undeniably was the Peter paul and mary/Dylan stuff. "
That was during the folk boom, which dissipated when there was no longer a big enough profit to be got
It was then that the folk clubs came into their own and made their own music free from the pressures of the Industry
"who seems to be allowed "
Who is stopping anybody debating - unless you want to include those who use abusive terms like "folk police" and "Miltown Malbay Magistrate
We are disagreeing - you want to claim you are being bullied by one person then I'm afraid you're going to have to report me to teacher
I'm very much in the minority here and I haven't complained about being bullied
What's the matter with you people ?
I have a century old tried and tested identification of folk song which has served pretty well to unite large numbers of people around an identifiable form of song for as long as that
Now that that definition has been abandoned and not replaced by anything workable in the clubs, those numbers are dwindling at a rapid rate - coincidence maybe ?
I don't think so
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 07:39 AM

coincidence maybe ?

Maybe. I think it is only part of the picture though. People are just not going out any more as witnessed by the number of pubs shutting. In the last 20-odd years many have had their disposable incomes slashed and the first thing that goes are the luxuries. From the 60s right through to the early 90s people would happily buy beer at pub prices, pay to see folk singers and buy their wares. Now they are fare more likely to buy 4 cans for £3 at Tesco's, put something on the telly and stream folk songs through the free version of Spotify.

Another thing we can blame on austerity. In my opinion.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 07:57 AM

well i don't recollect that big a gulf. the watersons for example got the soul cake song from peter, paul and mary - i recall reading.

The first time I saw Fred Jordan was on a package tour with Bert Jansch and the yetties and the Watersons..

One bloke I should have mentioned, whom I thought was the bees knees at the time was Johnny Handle. Although he did misinform me. He told me that Lord Robens would sort out the English mining industry.

Sorry if I bullied you Jim. It was unintentional.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 08:17 AM

Didn't think you did Al- not your thing
My comments were directed at our unidentified guest
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 09:56 AM

quote : - "I have a century old tried and tested identification of folk song"
.... but it is far from being the only one so please allow other people's view of the definition to stand. Many modern scholars from A.L.Lloyd and Hamish Henderson onwards have shunned a precise definition of 'folk song' as being of little value because of the wide variation in the usage of the term. You would give more credence to your statements if you sometimes used qualifiers like "In my opinion...." or "My experience leads me to believe....." rather than making bald statements as if they were factual when they are not.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:15 AM

"but it is far from being the only one so please allow other people's view of the definition to stand"
What definition - the peopl;e in general don't give a toss and those who don't accept the established one can't agree on what they mean by folk
The only other alternative is to just do away with the word altogether - you are making it meaningless
Nobodyy is talking about a "precise" definition of folk - just one that encapsulateds the standard one enough to allow us to turn up to a folk club and know what we're going to hear
Since when has the standard one been useless - it continues to be used to identify huge collections of songs such as 'The Carpenter Collection, and The Gavin Greig 8 volume set
It may have come "useless" or more likely 'inconvenient' to a dwindling bunch of folkies who would rather listen to something else, but until you get around to burning the previous collections and researched works, I'm afraid folk remains what it means - 'The voice of the people
Sorry 'bout that
Ican keep this up as long as you can - I'm answering ypur points - you are ignoring mine
I'm learning more and more when that happens
Once again - nothing to do with "my experience - plenty of evidence beyond that - where's yours - none of you has come anything near to bringing together Van Diemans Land and the songs of The Kinks?
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 11:42 AM

Tell yo what guest
You give me your definition of folk song - does that help ?
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 12:48 PM

What definition - the people in general don't give a toss

Are these "people in general" the "folk"? If not why not? And if they don't care, why shouldn't folk clubs be guided by that lack of concern?

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 12:53 PM

The Old pubs by Johnny Handle


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIzaX4TS0kk

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 01:28 PM

Sigh
Because the real thing is far to well documented
Would you redefimne Quantum Physics or Prime numbers because most people don't know or care what they are
The way things are going, maybe you would
I asked your for your definition - none was forthcoming
Checkmate, I think.
You really don't giv a toss what has happened to real folk song, do you ?
About time somebody put their hands up to this
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 01:46 PM

I think whether we agree with Jim or not, you should respect his view. And his right to have to have those views.

His jaundiced view of the contemporary folk scene is a consequence of the times he lived through, and the people who influenced him. he can't unlive those times, can't blot out those influences.

However, his beliefs have helped him in his work, which has been for the general good.

so behave yourselves!

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 02:27 PM

As much as I appreciate the thought Al, please stop patronising me - I've already had too much
In the face of the lack of argument here, I certainly don't need it
Again, these are not "my views' - they are the documented and long "accepted facts of wht fol song is - it would be flattering to accept credit for it, but....
You've all done a great deal to confirm that my views are pretty well as things stand - a takeover of an important music scene to be used for dumping unnamed and unnameable music
Couple of bloody operations in Holby City should cheer me up no end
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 02:47 PM

Going right back to the name of the thread, I thought the 60's "folk club boom" was much inhabited by people playing Bob Dylan and Donovan songs or trying to play in the style of Bert Jansch or Davy Graham? I must admit it could be a mistaken impression as I did not come into folk clubs until the mid 70's."
Yes you are mistaken, that happened but was not100per cent the situation,OR ANYTHING LIKE IT there were also tradtional singers who sang at revival folk clus, the revival was much more mixed[as i recollect it]
.Dave, if you were not present in the sixties, then you are out of your depth in this discussion

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 02:58 PM

Ok. I'll put up my hands. I do care about "real folk song". I also care about Morris dancing, dance music in general and country pubs. But compared to the real issues we have in the world they pale into insignificance. Your passion is exemplary, Jim. Sorry I cannot match it. I shall however continue supporting my local folk club, Morris side, country pub and our conversations. Long may they all survive.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 02:58 PM

How I remembered it - the contemporary and the trad thing coexisted fairly well for a long time.

The pro singers like Hamish Imlach were very eclectic, you might get Where the Gaudie Rins next to Blind lemon Jefferson.

I used to like that.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 05:44 PM

Me too, Al. In my neck of the woods there were very traditional clubs, clubs for political and song writers, and then those where anything was encouraged. I was part of the traditional club where anything that was not strictly acceptable as 'folk' was frowned upon (you could call it a Jim club) and there was a definite tendency to look down on anything that didn't come up to this standard such as the more contemporary club in the same room on a different night. Incidentally MacColl was seen by the trad club as too political! Although they did organise a concert of him and Peggy in a larger building.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:24 PM

I can't do copypaste from Facebook but Phil Edwards in Manchester had gone to the trouble to list the forty or more songs from their last session & about half have Roud numbers.
An interesting read.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/541081715914667?view=permalink&id=2183263421696480

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 02:58 AM

"But compared to the real issues we have in the world they pale into insignificance. "
We can't do much about the real issues Dave - te future of folk song lies in our hands and we can do something about it
That is a feeble answer - what it means is you don't care enough about the future of folk song to do anything about it.
"How I remembered it - the contemporary and the trad thing coexisted fairly well for a long time."
Me too - and I well remember the time when people knew the difference
Whether you wanted to little to both was a matter of choice - my time as a fairly busy individual with other interests was limited to my choosing to listen to the music I loved best so I limited my visits to traditional based clubs - I had the luxury of that choice - now I do not
THat was the time before traditional ballads were considered "unsuitable" or "tolerated".
I was happy to go to conferences because I knew they would be about music I knew to be folk - now, Christ knows what they's be discussing 0- ' The Little Shirt my Mother Made For Me' maybe ?
The times certainly have a-changed, as somebody once nearly sang
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 03:06 AM

"We can't do much about the real issues Dave -the future of folk song lies in our hands and we can do something about it
That is a feeble answer - what it means is you don't care enough about the future of folk song to do anything about it."


Ok so what should we be doing to "save" folk song, please??

Ray

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 03:24 AM

"Ok so what should we be doing to "save" folk song, please??"
Make an issue of them rather than "tolerating them" - sing the songs rather than hiring somebody to do it for you,like the ladies in the cosmetics advert say - they really are worth it
I wish I has a euro for every time I've heard somebody say they feel uncomfortable and unwelcome when they sing their unaccompanied songs in a folk club - that should not happen, and that is does is a sign that something is rotten in the State of Folkland
I've just poured out my heart about what folk song has meant to me personally on the other thread - haven't got time to do it again - the dentist won't wait
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 04:01 AM

The times certainly have a-changed, as somebody once nearly sang"depends how you define singning , jim its was singing but not as we know it

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 04:59 AM

what it means is you don't care enough about the future of folk song to do anything about it.

No, Jim. It doesn't mean I don't care. It means that I have a limited time in this mortal coil and I am prioritising what I do with it. The future of folk takes a back seat to the welfare of my family and me. If the future of folk is more important to you, fine, that is your choice. But don't judge everyone by your own standards.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 10:24 AM

Dave
You choose to call what yuo do folk - you refuse to respond to teh damage that attitude has done to real folk music and you sstill consider Ed sheeran and co suitable for the present folk scene
What do you care about if this doesn't interest you ?
I'm responding to you because you stuck your neck out - doesn't mean you are alone by any means
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 10:31 AM

You choose to call what yuo do folk

Yes I do Jim. I have posted links of what I do. What do you call it?

you refuse to respond to teh damage that attitude has done to real folk music

I have responded many times and pointed this out before. I have said specifically that I believe it has done no damage. Just because you disagree does not mean I have not responded.

What do you care about if this doesn't interest you ?

I just said I do care about what I do and I am interested in it. Just not to the extent that you are. I thought I made that clear.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 11:21 AM

"What do you call it? "
Not my problem - whatever you look at it, Ed Sheeran ain't folk
Then we really don;'t have anything to say to each other
What do you think has turned a movement which could count a few thousand clubs to the giddy heights of - 186 (by your link) if it wasn't a departure of folk to ... whatever you call your music
Sorry; this is really a waste of time - you really have not responded
If it's OK, I'll do the same
Jim

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 11:29 AM

You choose to call what yuo do folk

You said what I do, Jim, not what I like. Or is it another one of those things where you say one thing and mean another? I have posted links to what I do so I can only assume that you are saying that what I do is not folk. No skin off my nose, but if it is not folk, what is it?

What do you think has turned a movement which could count a few thousand clubs to the giddy heights of - 186

Yet again, I have answered that. Very recently in fact.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 07:39 AM

coincidence maybe ?

Maybe. I think it is only part of the picture though. People are just not going out any more as witnessed by the number of pubs shutting. In the last 20-odd years many have had their disposable incomes slashed and the first thing that goes are the luxuries. From the 60s right through to the early 90s people would happily buy beer at pub prices, pay to see folk singers and buy their wares. Now they are fare more likely to buy 4 cans for £3 at Tesco's, put something on the telly and stream folk songs through the free version of Spotify.

Another thing we can blame on austerity. In my opinion.

Once again, because you disagree with the answer does not mean I have not responded.

Constant repetition that I have not responded when I obviously have does not do your argument any good whatsoever. Sorry.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 11:56 AM

When I was a lad, I went to teacher training college.
The lecturers there (let's be kind!) were almost to man (and woman) utter wankers.

The accepted wisdom of the time was the child educates himself heuristically. He discovers the truths of life for him or herself.

Accordingly I was taking a poetry lesson in a secondary modern school. And luckily this day, I had the one lecturer who had been taught to teach on his national service in the RAF, where he had lectured in radio communication.

Anyway he watched me. And I, as my lecturers had taught me, got the kids to read the poem out we were studying.

This very clever ex- service man explained to me
Alan, these are 15 year old kids. What do they know about poetry. YOU must read it to them. Show them what it means to you.
That's how I learned to perform folk songs. By listening to people who had to do it and present it so well, it put food on the table.
Here endeth the first lesson. Not just one set of ideas emptied the folk clubs.

Subject: RE: UK 60s Folk Club Boom?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 02:01 PM

Those are excuses Dave and no way do they address the fact that people who like Ed heeran are not going to turn up to listen to long ballads - and vice versa - simple logic
You've taken the folk ot of the folk scene and the fact that you won't address that makes any further discussion totally a waste of time
I and my mates turned up regularly to folk clubs from the time when I was an apprentice earning £9 a week - it was a cheap night out
When the folk scene began to bomb people were doing reasonably well economically
I'm tired of people blaming everything other than the obvious - by removing folk from the folk clubs you have driven people away in their thousands
Stop blaming everything except yourselves
Let's leave it there while we're still talking to each other eh ?
Jim