The Weekly Walkabout

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: mandotim
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:12 AM

Okay, I've finally done it; I've read WAV's output on the web. All of it. I've even listened to his music. I felt I ought to, before passing an opinion that lots of posters seem to hold, without actually saying it.

WAV, your notions of an idealistic 'English' culture which must be preserved at all costs are, to me, utterly repellent. The idea of separating cultures in the way you describe is precisely the excuse that was given for apartheid in South Africa. Your ideas on repatriation are very close to those initially put forward by Adolf Hitler, who talked about removing the stain of Judaism from the Aryan culture, and instituted a widespread programme to repress any culture that did not reflect his misguided notion of Aryanism.

(Incidentally, it's an instructive exercise to read WAV's outpourings, and substitute the word 'Aryan' for 'English'. )

As with almost all demagogues, you hold a set of views which in your mind are unchallengeable; after all, how could someone as well qualified, erudite and artistically gifted as you be wrong? It doesn't matter that your readers include some serious scholars, historians and brilliant performers; they don't agree with you, so they must be wrong.
I'm trying to refrain from offering a professional opinion on your state of mind, despite being qualified to do so. Suffice it to say that there are a number of clinical syndromes that describe your behaviour in some detail.

To those who contribute to WAV's threads; the psychological 'payoff' for this behaviour for the person concerned is the affirmation and attention provided by those who argue with WAV's views. The best thing to do to help WAV is to scrupulously ignore any and every provocative remark, idea or proposal. This may encourage him to get out from behind his computer persona and engage more meaning fully with the real world and people around him. Hopefully, in time, this will build a set of varied experiences and moderate some of his more extreme views. But I doubt it.

Finally; does anyone else suspect (as I do) that WAV is not actually English at all?

This is my last contribution to any of WAV's threads, but I hope the suggestion about ignoring him (for his own long-term wellbeing) is taken up.
Tim

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Stu
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:14 AM

"having moved from Lancashire, where I was born, in 2001..."

That explains everything - you're only seven ; )

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 07:45 AM

I could have put "having moved from Lancashire (where I was born) in 2001" Stigweard-in-pedantic mood - but I didn't put "having moved fron Lancashire, where I was born in 2001"...do you now understand the difference?
To Tim-in-terrible-mood - I hate imperialism: be it Nazi, Victorian, or any other.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 11:55 AM

In my younger days, I had a rosewood soprano and an ebony sopranino made by Aulos, both of them Baroque, and a Renaissance soprano (can't remember what kind of wood or who made it). Before that, I had a soprano made by Gill of some sort of softer wood. I now have plastic recorders (Aulos soprano and sopranino, and Yamaha alto and tenor - I am no longer a serious recorder player as I was in my younger days). My opinion is that softer wood recorders are harder to play than plastic, but that good hardwood recorders are much easier to play than plastic. Plus they don't drip quite as badly. But as has been noted, wood recorders require careful handling in order to avoid splitting.

I seriously doubt that any of the members of the Flanders Recorder Quartet is playing a plastic recorder. I would say that he is playing a wooden recorder that has ivory trim. They are not uncommon.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:03 PM

I wonder what people would be saying if the word "Irish" was substituted for the word "English" in the posts that are being criticized.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:13 PM

It would all probably make about as much sense, which is none at all. IMHO

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 12:31 PM

It just seems to me that it's considered acceptable (and not Naziesque) for people of pretty much every ethnic group except for English, to want to have some sort of "pure" form of their culture. Now, I think I can understand why that might be, but I really don't believe for a minute that everyone who would like to preserve a pure form of English culture is doing so for reasons that could be compared to the Nazis.

I was once in a session with some people from the UK who strenuously objected to the idea that the music of O'Carolan could be considered Irish. They said this was because he had studied classical music in Italy. Nobody accused those people of being of the same mindset as the Nazis.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:16 PM

I think the difference is, in the one case, to preserve culture by clinging to traditions and it in the other it is to preserve culture by murdering those imposing exotic influences. The difference is clear and wide.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:16 PM

Thanks for that info., CC, which I'll keep in mind should I start looking for a wooden recorder. I have a plastic soprano and alto also, but the one I nearly always use is an Aulos tenor, moulded in ABS plastic - you can see and hear it on myspace if you wish (simple intro's to "When I survey the Wonderous Cross" and "The Water is Wide").

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 01:33 PM

I've listened to some of the songs on the MySpace page. It sounds to me like this endeavor brings a lot of pleasure and joy, and I wouldn't let any of the criticisms on these threads diminish that. The pleasure and joy of playing and singing is what it's all about.

I play the accordion for the pleasure and joy of it, and even though I've been playing for almost eight years, I still consider myself a beginner. People sometimes give me a hard time for not being more forthcoming with recordings of myself playing, even though I don't think I play well enough for that. I expect that if I was more forthcoming in that respect, there would be other people just waiting to criticize me for not being a better player. No matter what one does, there will always be people who will feel compelled to criticize.

This is me badly playing a Finnish Christmas song...

http://www.alcdv.com/soundsamples/SylvianJoululaulu.mp3

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 02:17 PM

oops that Guest was me

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 02:19 PM

I hate repeating myself, but apparently I hve to. For want od anything better to do at the time, I traced back all the threads started by Walkaboutsverse. All thew ones I could find have been marked 'Thread Closed'. Is this a record? It certainly seems so to me.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 03:22 PM

Kitchener:

If you truly are in want of anything better to do, I suggest a serious bout of self-examination is in order.



A

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 03:51 PM

Well my post is no worse nor better than most of them here. Anyway, my other question has been answered, why were they closed? Amos thank you for providing me with the answer.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 03:53 PM

I've been watching Wimbledon (my own weekend hit was washed out), a little of the BBC's Last Choir Standing (there were bits of our own culture), and have just re-loaded "Tees to Tyne" - with English-flute/tenor-recorder intro. on myspace . (And thanks for yours CC.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 03:54 PM

I think it's a shame about the gardening thread being closed (and I can't, myself, understand why it was). I would have liked to have gotten involved in that discussion.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 04:05 PM

I read that gardening thread from end to end, and will discuss gardening till the cows come home, with anyone knowledgeable. I do enjoy gardening myself, though my garden tends to have far more variety than just 'native' plants, I do love variety.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 04:24 PM

A year or two ago, myself and just one or two others were on the BBC gardening forum arguing for native gardening - for the benefit of native fauna, whose native habitat has been depleted; and for other "green" reasons. At that time, there was lots of hostility from the majority but, when I browsed earlier this year, attitudes have definitely changed, with folks posting lists of native plants, and Monty Don planning an all native garden, etc.

Here's that summary of my argument again (and it's not that far off-topic as the last WEEKLY WALKABOUT mentions Whalley Abbey's gardens) -
(Further to the gardening verses in walkaboutsverse.741.com)

Green gardening is native gardening, and vegetables, plus other consumables, should be the only exotic-flora we plant - as doing so can help limit food-miles, etc. By filling our other garden spaces with natives, we use less water and other resources, whilst aiding the native-fauna that, over the centuries, have evolved with them.
(Even high-nectar exotics, such as Buddleia, that are very attractive to SOME native-fauna, should be avoided, because they upset nature's/God's balance – God created evolution, too, that is.)

Our green gardens, with their vegies and natives, can be made still greener by the addition of compost heaps/bins; a wildlife pond – for native frogs, newts, etc, rather than exotic goldfish; bee- and bird-boxes, plus carefully selected feeders; rain- and grey-water vats; by growing everything organically, including thrifty home-popagation/species-swapping; and by leaving some lush untidy patches, decaying branches, etc.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 04:30 PM

I'll stick with my mixed gardening thank you. To state that Green gardening is native gardening is complete rubbish, you compare apples with oranges and you offer no logical reasons for native only gardening.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 04:42 PM

Do you accept that native habitat has been lost, which has been one of the factors in the decline of some native fauna and flora, LBK? And, if so, isn't leaning toward native plants in our gardens going to help?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 04:47 PM

The so-called loss of native habitat is obviously more of an issue with you than it is with me. I grow what I grow and am not nationalistic about my gardening and that is an end to it as far as I'm concerned.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 05:24 PM

K:

I don't know what answer; I have no idea why they were closed, or by whom, and the only one I know who could answer that question is Joe Offer, to whom it should go if an answer is wanted.

I was just being humorous about your taking the time to count threads, but, ya know, I am sure you had your reasons.


A

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:11 PM

I like the idea of using native plants in the garden. We live in a state that sometimes experiences drought conditions, and has long, very hot summers. Putting in a lawn and water loving plants is a bad idea if one wants to conserve resources, and we have decided that we won't be doing that.

I also was interested in participating in the discussion because of the spiritual element in it. I have been practicing "co-creative gardening" for several years myself and getting good results from it...

http://www.perelandra-ltd.com/

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:25 PM

Here's a link to a very successful co-creative garden in the UK...

http://www.findhorn.org/whatwedo/vision/cocreation.php

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:35 PM

We have tomatoes in our garden. They originated in what is now Peru. Is that native enough for North Carolina? I would hate to have a garden consisting of only tobacco and venus flytraps.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:36 PM

YEah--you'd have to wear a kilt or something to garden in -- they don't have a fly....



A

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 06:50 PM

Vegetables aren't what's being discussed here.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 08:05 PM

I can't figure out the reason for the gardening thread closure, either.
I reopened it.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 08:03 AM

Now the 'source singers and players' of trad folk music may well be rather 'inept' musically due to lack of performance training skills, but remember that it is their CONTENT that we 'worship', not the lousy performance!

Priceless stuff, Foolstroupe - though I fear you're not alone in such thinking...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 08:27 AM

Insane Beard

You would NOT mean that I love lousy performances, I hope!

Although I must confess to having several LPs by "The Portsmouth Sinfonia" ... wonder if they did any more that didn't make to Aus... or any CDs.... :-) Some of the funniest stuff I ever listened to - truly in the style of "Coarse Music"... AND they were SO SINCERE.... :-)


For those who don't get the reference 'Coarse Music' - Google "The Art of Coarse Acting by Michael Green" to give you an understanding of the concept of 'Coarse Performance' of anything - I fear that I may enjoy BEING a Coarse Muso far too much for my own good.... :-)

Perhaps our friend WAV is trying to champion a Lost Art - or perhaps one that SHOULD be lost...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 08:31 AM

Just to help you get started...

Michael Green (humorist)

Also attributed to Michael Green is the theatre style of Coarse Acting. A coarse actor is "one who can remember his lines, but not the order in which they come. One who performs . . . amid lethal props. The Coarse Actor's aim is to upstage the rest of the cast. His hope is to be dead by Act Two so that he can spend the rest of his time in the bar. His problems? Everyone else connected with the production." (Michael Green)

Thus you can work out what a "Coarse Muso" would be.... :-)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 09:32 AM

As folkies, we keep trying tell, via the repetition of a melody, in an earthier timbre than what a classical or pop singer might cultivate - and whether you call it coarser or not FT, I for one definetly prefer that folkie way. When singing hymns, however, I too at least try to sing with a sweeter/"Sunday-best" voice.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 09:51 AM

WAV,

You have not only missed the bus, but also the planet with your lack of understanding of "Coarse Music".

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 10:27 AM

That is how you achieve an other-worldly sound...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 12:04 PM

It's apes and sevres vases time again!

How is that a folk song, WAV?

I could believe that WAV's posts were being changed. He has made a lot of enemies, but what I find hard to swallow is why change surfeit to surteit, surely there are more effective ways of wreaking havoc.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 12:17 PM

I think the discussion-demon(s), Volgadon, may also have closed some of the threads, that left more than just yours truly head-scratching.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: s&r
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 12:24 PM

WAV - I can't quite understand your post of 9.32 above. The second sentence is OK but the first one is lacking subject or object or something.

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 12:41 PM

Here is a long build-up to a question.
Let's invent a Frenchman. Call him Francois Davout. He was born in a Parisian suburb but at a very early age his family moved to Quebec. He recieved a degree in ethnography from an university there, travels a bit and at last decides to repatraite himself to France. He becomes a fanatical devotee of all things French and true. He even throws out all his Tintins and Lucky Lukes and won't sing along to Aznavour or Macias. He is smitten with traditional French song, before the corrupting influences of Stivell and Malicorne. He writes verses, calls himself les Chants au'Pied (pardon my appalling and nonexistant French) and opens up a myspace page, posting homemade recordings of himself singing French trad leaned from old records, top-line melody only. He loves Au Clair de Lune. My question is, should he sound like this?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Gene Burton
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 02:58 PM

I rather like the phrase "trying tell"; it has a pleasing onomatopea (sic- I think) to it. Though I'm buggered if I know what it means...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 03:20 PM

To Stu: if you could listen to "When I Survey the Wonderous Cross" and "The Water is Wide" on myspace , and focus on the timbre of my voice (rather than the keyboard accompaniment), I hope you'll get what I mean.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 04:47 PM

You would NOT mean that I love lousy performances, I hope!

My problem, Foolstroupe, is that you think the recordings of so-called source singers are somehow lousy.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 10:37 PM

"you think the recordings of so-called source singers are somehow lousy"

I think that the 'recordings' are fine for the technology of the day.

Some of the singers, recorded well past their best, really DO sound lousy. They may have sounded great in their younger days, same as some of the old instruments players, suffering the outragesous stings of old age, lack of practice, arthritus, etc too...

"Coarse Music" has nothing to do with a coarse sound, once again WAV reveals that he just doesn't get it - I am beginning to agree with mandotim... BTW, if you haven't READ Michael Green, you have no idea what 'Coarse Performance' means either...

But as I said, it is not their voice or instrument sound, what WHAT they are performing (the CONTENT, not the 'style') that is what the scholars which to preserve. Since WAV says he definitely TRIES to make his voice sound terribly lousy (just imitiate the recorded noise), he should be congratulated, perhaps, for having achieved his aim... but scholars will never remember him for the reasons that he intends...

Does anyone remember the name of the litle old lady who used to hire some place like Albert Hall each year and give a personal concert of warbly tunes all lousily sung?

Now THAT's a REAL Coarse Musician! Just like The Portsmouth Sinfonia!

:-)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:42 AM

Yes, well, you still haven't heard Chongo attempt to play the saxophone...

Now THERE is coarse music!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:55 AM

I have to revise what I said about what kind of recorders I used to have when I was younger. I didn't have wood recorders made by Aulos (they probably don't even make wood recorders). My baroque recorders were made by Kung.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:56 AM

LOL

What tripped my memory was a thread title above the line about Kung Fu.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:50 AM

If I was going to make a recommendation for any make of wooden recorder, I think this is the one I would recommend: Moeck.   They're a step up from Kung recorders, but more affordable than makes like von Huene. At least that's how it was when I was playing the recorder seriously.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 04:09 AM

"But as I said, it is not their voice or instrument sound, what WHAT they are performing (the CONTENT, not the 'style') that is what the scholars which to preserve. Since WAV says he definitely TRIES to make his voice sound terribly lousy (just imitiate the recorded noise), he should be congratulated, perhaps, for having achieved his aim... but scholars will never remember him for the reasons that he intends..." (Foolestroupe)...if you're confused, please don't try and confuse others about my attempts/intentions.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 06:40 AM

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: irishenglish - PM
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 10:47 AM

"Voices is great WAV, but it is more of a revival collection-Maddy Prior, Martin Carthy, John K, etc. It is not the same as listening to Harry Cox, Walter Pardon, Fred Jordan, etc. Just as I said in the Glastonbury thread. And unless someone beat me to it, 100 up!"
...Harry Cox, Fred Jordon and other source-singers were on an anthology special "Travelling Folk" programme, BBC, last Saturday, which some of you may be able to get on the BBC iPlayer.
(And thanks for more wooden recorder info., CC.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 08:36 AM

"
"But as I said, it is not their voice or instrument sound, what WHAT they are performing (the CONTENT, not the 'style') that is what the scholars which to preserve. Since WAV says he definitely TRIES to make his voice sound terribly lousy (just imitiate the recorded noise), he should be congratulated, perhaps, for having achieved his aim... but scholars will never remember him for the reasons that he intends..." (Foolestroupe)...if you're confused, please don't try and confuse others about my attempts/intentions."

I'm not confused at all, and from what they have said publicly, neither are some others, mate.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout
From: GUEST,s&r without cookie
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:27 PM

WAV I listened to the two examples you gave. It didn't clarify the rather convoluted sentence, but in all honesty I probably knew what you were attempting to convey.

As to the examples - I couldn't tell any difference in style or timbre.What I did notice is that you are ducking the high notes; everything towards the top end of your register is flat, by as much as a quarter tone.

Stu