Modes?

Subject: RE: Modes?
From: Arkie
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 01:02 AM

Have enjoyed this thread. Glad to see it refreshed since I missed it first time around. Have been fascinated by modes ever since being adopted by a mountain dulcimer some years ago. Have since become a jack-leg, jake-leg some would say, modal theorist. In other words, I have absolutely no formal knowlege of the subject. Have observed though that in traditions where modal music was found, if instruments were used they were often tuned in open, sometimes even called modal tunings. The fiddle and banjo as well as dulcimer were ideal for playing or accompaning modal pieces. I am inclined to believe that the introduction of the guitar and its chordal possiblities helped to bring about the decline in interest in modal pieces. I was told by an elderly singer, here in the Ozarks, that when she was young the young people thought the modal sounding tunes sounded old-fashioned and they stopped using minor sounds. Hence, songs like Wayfaring Stranger fell into disuse and songs like Rose Connely which had minor chords in the Appalachians were played with all major chords. Though my experience is somewhat limited, I have seen and heard many musicains of this lady's generation and have yet to hear one of them use minor chords. In the shape note, unaccompanied singing in the churches they have continued to sing in minor modes. And accapella ballad singers have used the Dorian and Aeolian modes. Did not intend to run on so long. Final notes. Norwegian Wood, the Beatle song, is in the Mixolydian mode. Geordie is in the Dorian mode, which moves in a interesting way back and forth between major and minor. I suspect the use of open tunings by so many Celtic guitarists allows them to obtain a modal flavor not possible in the standard tuning.

Subject: RE: Modes?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 01:45 AM

I think musician should forget the theory and just play the notes. We get better music that way, as there's lots more time to practice.

"The earliest known copy of "The Campbells are coming" is that called "Hob or Nob" in Walsh's 'Caledonian Country Dances', IV, c 1744. (Out side of Scotland it retained this title, an is "Hob Nob" in 'Riley's Flute Melodies', New York, c 1817, with again the same key-mode) It has apparent keynote B with one sharp on the key signature, which would make it B phrygian, but it can also be coded as G major circular starting on the 1st of the scale. Those in Charles Gore's 'The Scottish Fiddle Music Index' are all coded G major, but there's no real way to decide one way or the other.

You will find the same two options for the Scottish "The White Cockade/The Ranting Highlandman" (1st tune in Aird's 'Airs', Jack Campin's website, which you can click on from mine). Here, however, the circular mode starts on the 3rd of the scale.

Circular tunes can be stinkers to figure out, because while the mode may seem a little bit odd, there is always one, and it does't seem all that odd. One case that shows very fast that this isn't the right way is when the last note is B and there are no sharps or flats on the key signature. You get a lot of locrians that way.

My favorite version of "Greensleeves" is not one of the 6 on my website, B168-73, that Simpson gave in 'The British Broadside Ballad and It Music'. I've given it now with an old song that I had forgotten to give previously. See "As I walked by myself" in Scarce Songs 2 for song and tune. www.erols.com/olsonw

"Greensleeves" is not a normal mode. It has an 8 note scale and there's no standard terminology for it. It's about as close as one can get to being half way between major and minor, or, another way of saying the same thing within narrower limits, is that it's half way between mixolydian and dorian. As for notation, it's simplest when you given it as dorian with a variable 7th. Those who want to believe that ancient Greeks had modes can if they like. Let's see them come up with real evidence. I spell the names in lower case, because as far as I'm concerned, they're just (faulty) names that have been generally accepted because of wide useage.

Subject: RE: Modes?
From: paddymac
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 01:46 AM

A crusty old machinist once taught me that the most important thing to know was what you don't know. This thread has reinforced that sage advice. My knowledge of music theory is, ahem, somewhat limited, but this thread is sure to expand my horizons in that area. If anybody ever again asks "what have you learned from Mudcat?", I'll be sure to direct them to this thread. Thanks to all of you for your "teachings" here.

Subject: RE: Modes?
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 05:50 AM

Very very informative and interesting thread. I know now why I've been having so much phrygian trouble with some tunes...

Best regards,

mcmoo

Subject: RE: Modes?
From: GUEST,Okiemockbird
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 04:45 PM

Bruce O., here's my table of frequencies. First columns is pythagorean, 2nd column is 12-equal. Frequencies are in Herz.

A 440.000 440.000
B 495.000 493.883
C 521.482 523.251
D 586.667 587.330
E 660.000 659.255
F 695.309 698.456
G 782.222 783.991

T.

Subject: RE: Modes?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 21 Mar 00 - 05:01 PM

Peter T, Usually I feel pretty comfortable around things musical, even the basics of modal stuff. But this thread...WoW! You're right...cut 'n' paste into a handbook!

CH