Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 09:03 AM

300
Just an apology for the typos in the last bit, before anyone picks me up on them!

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Patronising Git.
Date: 28 May 07 - 09:58 AM

It was slurrey SLINGER actually Diane- an even better joke than for which you give him credit.

Say what you want about Tyke, but amidst all the heat, fury, slings, arrows, rants and raves he stands his lonely ground in his own peculiar "never admit you're wrong" way. Now who does that remind me of?....

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:16 AM

Well you missed it the First time Ralphie Guest it was after his peronal attack all was focust on was RRst. Never the less that is what he was doing. Oh and as for getting off the subject and redherrings he didn't contribute.
Deep envy Kevin - I have a fair few, but nowhere near that many!

Dai - nope, I retired from the Revenue on ill health grounds about two and a half years ago (hoorah!), so don't need to be out and working today (double hoorah!) Remind me to tell you about it next time I see you - will that be Spiers and Boden on 22nd June, by any chance?? (It's just as well, anyway, as I feel worn out after attending the Keith Summers festival at the King and Queen over the weekend - great time had by all!!)

But i'm not picking on him because he's an ex Tax Collector.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:17 AM

You morally fell that you should be due something Dick then what about the morality of not having to Pay Martin Carthy anything. When you yourself admit that it is his standing that would be, ok, one of the reasons that this Album Cheating the Tide would be commercially viable.

You have your own record label and you distribute it via the Internet your prices are in euros. Correct me if I am wrong but that means that you are distributing Albums and Tune Books. Worldwide. So you are running a business that is internationally available to all are you not. So you are in competition with Dave Bullmer who is also a record distributor like yourself and has his own record Label.

Naturally you wish to have control over your own work then why did you sign the contract that gave those rights away? However you are not the only musician involved in the two Albums you wish to own the rights of.

I have contributed to a thread called Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer that started by Folkiedave. I listen to the programme and I heard Dave Bullmer's honest and open contribution to it.

Immediately the next contributor incorrectly quoted the programmes contents. You brought in to the discussion your own differences with Dave Bullmer. Feelings are running high no one wants to say anything that they could be sued for. I doubt if anybody wants to insult anyone's artistic integrity accept for Dave Bullmer that is. Dave Bullmer is making and has made his own commercial decisions about the property that he owns. He is still in business whilst others who have made the wrong or the correct commercial decisions have got out of the folk music industry.

Nick Jones well I sure no one can put into words the loss of his talents have been to Folk Music. The Smashing his Albums in a well know London record store has noting to do with making Nick Jones and his music available has it. I would have thought a positive step to help Nick Jones would be to organize fundraisers for Nick or if he is not in need of the Money. To help all those other people and their cares that suffer from a traumatic brain injury.

I would be personally very proud to have a musician of Martin Carthy's standing think enough about my Musicianship to agree to appear on my Album. I don't think the money aspect of it would be my main concern.

If you are losing patience with me now! That is just a red herring to hide the fact that you were the one to bring up your own personal grips into a thread about Bright Phoebus. You are the one who has made a personal attack on me in your contribution to this thread. You grip about Dave Bullmer not making your work available but in fact it's about owning the rights to your and other peoples work and being able to transfer those rights into different country. If its about making your past work available offer to pay Dave Bullmer up front for a 2000 copies of the two Albums on CD format and see if he will do the deal. Do the Maths it's going to take you twenty years to sell them all. I quote you "I have 3 cds on my website.,Boxing Clever has sold 800 COPIESin 8 years[100 copies a year], If people are still buying things on CD in two years time. Good job Eire is such a dry climate and perfect for the storage of CDs Dick.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Diane Easby
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:19 AM

No, PG. Slurry SINGER is far better . . .
(as in 'How far, how far can you throw Elgar?')

I might have been wrong over lots of things (just counting them) but on this issue I'm not.
Tyke/George gets stuff wrong each time he opens his mouth (as in 'hole' 'stop' 'digging' 'spade').

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Diane Easby
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:29 AM

RRst

No, no George, the slurrys(l)inging person was addressing ME.
SHE was telling me not to bother to text her. As if . . .

I listen to the programme and I heard Dave Bullmer's honest and open contribution to it

I have a copy and, no, I can't find that bit.

( 'hole' 'stop' 'digging' 'spade')

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:35 AM

Tyke,he is Nic Jones.
Dave Bulmer owns the leader catalogue.,amongst this catalogue are many different peoples work.
I own my own recordings,but not those sold by Dambuster and Greenwich Village to Dave Bulmer.
Iam unable to bootleg my own recordings because it is illegal,and Dave Bulmer might sue me,personally I would prefer DaveBulmer brought out the recordings[even if I didnt see a penny from them]than that they never saw the light of day]
why dont you contact Martin Carthy ask him what he thinks,he will probably you tell to stop being so daft.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:39 AM

Oh dear perhaps we should blame the NHS for a lack of herring aids. Don't for get the first miss quote was from you Diane it was corrected by Folkiedave. However and I am sticking to my guns on this there is no truth in the rumore about you and Dave Bullmer.

Nearly did a proper red herring I meant hearing :-)

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Diane Easby
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:43 AM

The Smashing his Albums in a well know London record store has noting to do with making Nick Jones and his music available

Yes it does.

It make an HMV store manager aware in a dramatic way that Nic Jones' music ought to be made available as an ETHICAL product from which he would benefit.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:50 AM

there is no truth in the rumore about you and Dave Bullmer

Clearly not.
There is no rumour.

As for my 'misquote' at the outset of the thread, I explained it by my state of stunned astonishment at hearing that South Shields voice drifting from the speakers when I wasn't really listening. I'd thought there could be nothing new I'd never heard before on this subject, but recorded it anyway.

Actually, what I thought I'd heard about the contracts was only half as bad as the reality.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Diane Easby
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:51 AM

That was me.
The very thought of that voice makes me forget my name.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Patronising git.
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:55 AM

Diane: I never said you were wrong on this one darling. On the other hand, although Planet Tyke's a strange place (I mean, you couldn't make it up, let's be honest), now and then along the way he makes a fair point.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 10:58 AM

Tyke.
Do you not read peoples posts before you reply, or is it a deliberate attempt at obfuscation??

So far, Dick Miles, Brian Peters, and myself (all of whom have been around the block a few times on the Folk Scene) have quite reasonably refuted all your comments.

We all know only too well what's going on here.

You say that DB has a successful record label.
I'd be glad to know its name, pray tell.
If it's so successful, then how come he's not exactly letting anybody know about it?

Apart from a few Irish CDs a quarter of a century ago, and the legal, if slightly suspect release of the first 2 NIC Jones LPs and Bright Phoebus, by the back door, what else is there?

I may be mistaken, but to be successful in business, aren't you supposed to sell something?

George, please stop digging. You are just looking foolish now.

Ralph

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Diane Easby
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:00 AM

He's just started another thread asking in what format will albums be produced in the future.
Does he mean he's actually going to persuade his mate to do this?
Or is he just asking for an ingenious use for a Flash stick?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:07 AM

Diane.

Thats below the belt!!
R

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:13 AM

I reapeat for the hard of hearing.

"Nick Jones well I sure no one can put into words the loss of his talents have been to Folk Music. The Smashing his Albums in a well know London record store has noting to do with making Nick Jones and his music available has it. I would have thought a positive step to help Nick Jones would be to organize fundraisers for Nick or if he is not in need of the Money. To help all those other people and their cares that suffer from a traumatic brain injury."

What effect will it have to go round smashing Nick Jones Albums because of Ethics? The record shop makes a profit on the sale and hopefully pay's their bill. I don't know how this works do they pay the record company the royalties or do they pay direct to, not sure about this help, is it MRIPS or some one. I expect all these record producers on here will know. Then that monies are distributed to whom ever is legally entitled to it. After the Taxman has got a slice of it naturally. I don't want to upset any tax collectors again do I?

All I can see it doing is putting the record stores off buying Folk Albums in a shrinking market for them. So who is supressing the release of Folk Albums.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:27 AM

No Ralphie it was not below the belt I hang my 4 gig Flash Stick around my neck. Which as you know I am prepared to stick out a long way.

I have started a new thread it is true as asking the same question on this thread don't seem to get an answer.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:28 AM

Tyke.
Do you not read peoples posts before you reply, or is it a deliberate attempt at obfuscation??

No.
And yes, would appear to be the answers.

I repeat for the aurally-challenged:

the Taxman has got a slice of it naturally

Er, no. The issuing source would need to be MCPS registered.
HMV, at least, is now aware that the source of some of their stock was not subject to this.

who is supressing the release of Folk Albums

He who holds the rights. Not hard.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Diane Easby
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:31 AM

Bugger. 'Twas me again.
Tell yer wot, if I change my Mudcat membership name would you all (by which I mean SOME) promise not to bombard me with PMs?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:45 AM

The record shop makes a profit on the sale and hopefully pays their bill. I don't know how this works do they pay the record company the royalties or do they pay direct to, not sure about this help, is it MRIPS or some one

There is another way you could put that George. You could say "I don't know what I am talking about".

We all knew that - but now you have got around to confirming it.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 11:56 AM

Dyslexia or not, It's just downright rude to spell Nic Jones incorrectly at every chance it's N...I...C Gottit??

"All I can see it doing is putting the record stores off buying Folk Albums in a shrinking market for them. So who is supressing the release of Folk Albums."

Dave Bulmer, That's who.
Not a member of PRS, and has been on The Musicians Union Blacklist for years.

Come on George Oh Asker of questions.
Name this company that Dave runs that is so successful, and I will take it up with Companies House, and find out just how successful it is.

Nothing to do with Scotland perchance ???

Freedom of Information act, etc, etc.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 12:32 PM

Why is it that whenever I think of this subject, I feel a "Watchdog" (BBC consumer prog for those abroad) moment coming on.
Would make a change for Nicky Campbell to get his teeth into something other than rogue builders and time share companies.

Just a thought.

Oh, and many days ago, Tyke asked what all this was doing for sales of BP?

Seeing it's not actually available in many places, if at all. probably not much, but, Tykes continued upping the anti has kept this thread at the top of the pile.
Tyke, if you hadn't entered the fray with pointless and inappropriate questions, after a couple of days, and a few grumbles this thread would have withered on the vine.

I'm sure that Dave B is very pleased that you are standing up for him, and drawing worldwide attention to his activities (Or lack of them).

I know for a fact, that there are some very influential people in the music business reading this, And keeping copies. Which is why I try to be circumspect in what I say.

You and I will probably be safe, as I certainly have no legal ties to Bulmer. Presumably you don't either, do you?
Thats OK then.

And before you bring up my connection with NIC (note sp) Jones, that project was a labour of love for NIC and his family, and if you had read the sleevenotes on "Unearthed" you will have noted that my fee was a Kit-Kat. (Actually, Julia sent me two, but I think it was a buy one get one free deal in Tescos!)

Always be aware of what you put in a public forum. because it is just that. Public....
So, old friend, keep digging. It's all useful stuff.

Maybe you now understand why DB won't go public.

"Anything you say....etc"

DB has lots to lose. One slip, and it might not be nice.

So, Tyke Old Bean, carry on digging, Keep this subject alive. No probs for me. and the world is reading, and making up its own mind.

Look forward to the next round of ridiculous questions

Ralph J

Even you should get it now!!

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 01:29 PM

Well I have to admit Diane being Dyslexic it takes me longer to write a reply, I also tend to do it in a programme with a spellchecker. Then when I come to post my reply someone has added another comment. However as I have taken the view that I have been responding to what individuals have already contributed. It has been to them that I have been responding especially when they do not want to receive PM's.

Oh Folkiedave how I pity all those poor students you used to teach who were Dyslexic. Don't you know that we find just using initials difficult naturally you did according to someone, who I will not name, she told me you new everything about everything.

Where doses Royalties portion of the sale of those Albums go? Folkiedave or don't you know the answer. I which case I will personal correct my friend's statement and point this out to her.

Ralphie or is it Ralph you will have to take up my not intentional rude ness to Nic with Bill Gates as its his spellchecker that I am using. But how rude is it to smash up an Artists Album in a record shop? Even if you did pay for it first!

The Musicians Union Blacklist advises artist to contact them before signing any contracts with Dave Bullmer all so on that Blacklist is or was a BBC producer or now Ex BBC Producer. I suspect that there are a lot of people who are not members of PRS. The question is who collects the Royalties due from the retail shop and is responsible for paying the artists who are registered members of PRS and MCPS.

I am trying to be nice here but this is not about Nic Jones or Dick Miles its about lot's of record companies getting Artists to sign contracts which they later regret signing. Other people than Dave Bullmer issued most of these contracts however these people seem to be totally innocent.

Oh Ralphie or Ralph you do seem to answer any questions at all I ask a question and this blue haze of indignation drifts over you. I point out the pointless destruction of smashing up a CD in a London record store and you are so upset. I'm throwing in Red Herrings Tykes mudding the waters yes I heard it all before. I ask questions that you don't want to answer you won't let people send you personal messages because I'll quote a personal message without revelling the author's name "Ferchrissake George. Ralph was a Mudcat member for years. Long before even I was. He
opted out and no longer gets raving loonie PMs from nutters."

You won't talk to Dave Bullmer you won't visit Dave facilities to check on how he is storing these master tapes! Now we find that you think the Mudcat is full of nutters and loonies.

Oh I've got the answer Folkiedave he stuck his head inside the 50 gallon oil drum after pining the directions to the inside of the oil drum with a paper clip so that he would know which side of the Bala he was heading and walked across the Bala.
If only Ralph had been there he could have shown them how to walk on water.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 07 - 01:46 PM

Has anyone previously mentioned that Bulmer hit Topic with an injunction to try and stop the Nic Jones CD Game Set Match going out?

Did he really kill his parents so he could go on the Orphan's Outing?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 May 07 - 02:12 PM

interesting.
Now Tyke,what is your response to that.
6,20,3,11,15,6,6,19,24,11,5.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 May 07 - 02:14 PM

How can I put this even more simply?

PRS royalties are collected and distributed centrally and are payable in respect of airplay and live performance. Whoever holds the publishing rights gets such payments direct from the PRS.

MCPS payments (mechanicals) are collected as a result of numbers pressed then sold when the producer has applied for and received a licence. CDs produced at a proper pressing plant from glass masters are rather less likely to escape this control than CD-Rs burnt on a computer and no licence obtained. No returns = no artists' royalties.

So it's not hard to work out who loses out in each instance.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 02:30 PM

interesting.
Now Tyke,what is your response to that.
6,20,3,11,15,6,6,19,24,11,5.

Err is it your Irish lottery Number Dick?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 03:18 PM

So what you are saying is that Bill Leader got the Watersons to sign away their Royalty rights until 2000 copies of the Bright Phoebus album were sold. This was presumably so he could make a fare profit for his out lay or at least cover his costs. The consequence was that Bill Leader only produced 1000 good copies. As he was not able to sell all those copies of Bright Phoebus he did not produce any more. He then sold his catalogue that included the Album Bright Phoebus to someone else who sold it to someone else who sold it to Dave Bulmer.

As Dick Miles has told us it has taken him eight years to sell 800 copies of his albums. Which he has produced in the CD format and unlike Vinyl is still mainstream format. Ralphie has told us that this Album Bright Phoebus was ahead of its time. We have also been told that royalties are paid on sales of Albums.

And you state "MCPS payments (mechanicals) are collected as a result of numbers pressed then sold when the producer has applied for and received a licence. CDs produced at a proper pressing plant from glass masters are rather less likely to escape this control than CD-Rs burnt on a computer and no licence obtained. No returns = no artists' royalties."

I'm saying that the amount of CD's anyone would have to produce if the complete Bill Leader collection was to be reissued would cost millions. The storage costs would be astronomical. You are aware that CDs are going the way of Vinyl and Cassettes and that the copyright Laws are going to change. Lets hope the MCPS realize that a check of who has sold what to who is all held on the Barcode that is scanned at the check out. Then they can collect the Royalties due and pay them to person or persons who are legally entitled to receive them.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 05:45 PM

- Thread - Message - RE: Lyr Req: When the Coal Comes from the Rhondda - May 21 2005 12:25PM -   Miskin Man
Summary: Calennig CD "You can take a white Horse anywhere" available from me for £12-00 including p&p Andy Jackson, 52 Llantrisant Road, Pontyclun,Wales CF72 9DQ This was re-pressed after Mick's stroke thanks to valiant effort by Dave Bulmer, about whom you hear much bad, but he did us good.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 05:56 PM

Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: LANCASHIRE LAD - PM
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 04:02 PM

Hi Dick

I'm one of the few people on here who doesnt believe Dave Bulmer is the devil incarnate!

CM have now released 2 Nic Jones albums. Royalties have been sent, but cheques remain uncashed as I believe there are ongoing negotiations over new contracts / royalty rates , etc

I'm not sure about all artists on the label, but a friend recently spoke to Sid Kipper, he said he gets paid no problem and is happy to keep releasing his stuff through them

Yes they press on CDR, but had I not been told, I would never have guessed. I've bought quite a few of them and never had a single problem yet

By the way though. There are a lot more than a "few" CDs they have released. CM own everything on Trailer, Leader, Black Crow, Making Waves, Mulligan, Dara, Broadside, Sweet Folk and Country, Folk Heritage, Greenwich Village, Rubber and I'd guess a load more.

Cheers

LL

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 06:01 PM

Subject: RE: Celtic Music Dave Bulmer (5)
From: dick greenhaus - PM
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 01:45 PM

Ok-
A partial listing:

LER 2027       Nic Jones               Nic Jones
CROC 211       5-Hand Reel               Gaughan, etc.
LER 2014       Ballads & Songs               Nic Jones
RUB 028               Nowt So Good'll Pass       Bob Fox, Sid Luckley
LER 2122       Chained Melody               Sid Kipper
PHF 1004       Barking Mad               4 Men & a Dog
PHF 1003       Shifting Gravel               4 Men & a Dog
PHF 1005       Dr. A's Secret Remedies       4 Men & a Dog
PHF 1006       Long Roads               4 Men & a Dog
LUN 051               Time to Time               Gerry O'Connor
LE 4006               The Border Minstrel       Billy Pigg
MOO 2               Rooted!                        Mike Harding
LE 2121               Cod Pieces               Sid Kipper
                   Arky's Toast               Martyn Wyndham-Read
LE 2092               Maypoles to Mistletoes       Martyn Wyndham-Read
RUB 029               On Two Levels               Sean McGuire & Josephine Keegan
LE 2011               Rout of the Blues       Robin, Barry Dransfeld
PHF 1001       From the Beggar's Mantle Barbara Dickson
PHF 1002       Orfeo                        Archie Fisher
GVR 214               Songs & Tunes From Wales       Mick Terns & Pat Smith
GVR 224               You Can Take a White Horse Anywhere Terns & Smith                                                                                                   
CMC 080               Both Sides of the Coyne         Mick Coyne
CMC 009               Hom Bru                        Obadeea
CMC 079               Lifeswork                James Keegan
DAM 056               Since Time Immoral         Kipper Family
PHC 2K2               Legendary Queen of Irish Folk Singers       Delia Murphy
LER 2044       Music From the Coleman Country Revisited       various
LED 2052       Shetland Fiddlers       various (inc. Aly Bain & Tom
                                                         Anderson)
CGR 002               Mouth Organ             Will Atkinson
LER 2038       The Bonny Birdy             Ray Fisher
LER 2076       Bright Phoebus             Lal & Mike Waterson
GVR 209               The Ettrick Shepherd       The McCalmans
GVR 209               Aboard the Cutty Sark       Stan Hugill
CMC 081               You are Here                Tich Frier
PHC 2K7               Frank Wappat's Spring Collection       various
PHK 2K3               The Street Singer       Arthur Tracy


Can't quote prices as yet--I'd rather wait a short while and see if I'll be lynched by maddend Mudcatters

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 06:17 PM

Subject: Sign on the dotted line Kid!
From: Rick Fielding - PM
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 12:45 PM

I've been reading this thread
click

with great interest, and it's an oft repeated tale. Sometimes we as performers think that "our work belongs to us" no matter how unprepared (or excited) we were when presented with our first contract. Simply not so. Legal documents favour those who've done their "homework", not those who want to make the world a better place.

Take it from someone who has signed their name several times to contracts that they simply didn't read fully, GET a LAWYER....even if you think they're parasites.

There is nothing so disheartening as seeing your emotional Art discussed in corporate legal terms.....but remember, YOU gave the suits that power when you signed on the dotted line.


Rick

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 06:31 PM

Hi Tyke.

Glad you've learned how to spell Nics name correctly

Cut and paste coming up.
(It's quite theraputic doing this in the wee small hours...mind you it's easier replying to you than shooting herrings , red or otherwise in a barrel)

Erewigo!!


"Ralphie or is it Ralph you will have to take up my not intentional rude ness to Nic with Bill Gates as its his spellchecker that I am using. But how rude is it to smash up an Artists Album in a record shop? Even if you did pay for it first!"

To My Friends it's Ralph/Ralphie.
To you it is Mr Jordan. (Mainly because I don't consider that we have a friendship. Sad but true)

As for the terrible sight of me destroying a Bulmer release in a record shop.
Woops sorry, was that an offence bigger than the Great Train Robbery??

It certainly made the manager think about who he was dealing with.
Yes, of course it was petty and childish....but it worked.
That shop doesn't stock such product anymore,
Result!!

Keep it coming Tyke Old Bean.
The longer you keep this thread alive, The longer Mr Bulmer is going to get very annoyed with you.
He wants to keep everything nice and quiet,
The less publicity that this whole subject gets, the better as far as he is concerned.
So, Come on George, keep your ridiculous posts flowing in.
I don't mind, Have all the time in the world.
But, if I were you, I'd keep my front door locked. There are dangerous people out there.

I would be very careful what you say in open forum. (Unless you are the earthly representative of DB??)

Just for Mr Sharpleys benefit. (Yes I know you are out there reading this, Hi Neil!)

I have no financial, legal, or indeed any claim in all of this sad, sorry saga.

I was never an artist with any of the labels now owned by Dave Bulmer (Celtic Music). And therefore have no self interest in this ridiculous situation for personal gain.

If the rights of the recordings reverted to the relevant artists (By negotiation, or whatever, There has got to be a deal available, otherwise what is your agenda?)

Firstly I would be a very happy man.
Secondly, I would not gain ONE PENNY for myself.

Phew...hopefully that keeps me out of court!!

Tyke. Look forward to trying to understand what the hell it is you're talking about tommorow. Not holding out much hopes in the "Making sense" Dept.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 06:35 PM

Mmmm

Just noticed that my last post was 333.

Which is "Half the Number of the Beast"

Serendipity or what!!

Goodnight

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 06:55 PM

Oh Just to finish. (Dog/Bone)
Yes I do remember that post from Lanc Lad in 2004.
And yes the Jones family did recieve checks, but to have banked them would have made them complicit and liable. (So, they didn't, wisely)
So, very sensibly, they are sitting in a cupboard somewhere, I assume.
Unbanked and Uncashed.
Not good enough. Someday, Mr Bulmer has got to do a deal.
I'm so glad that I've retired. I now have a purpose....

Onwards and Upwards

Ralphie

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 May 07 - 07:13 PM

Look I was going to bed honest!!.....Really I was!

Then I found this.
Oh Mr Tyke. How could you shoot yourself in the foot so magnificently....Well Done...Bravo!!


"Subject: RE: What format will Albums be produced on?
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 04:54 PM

Yes you have my vote Steve and with proper safe guards to protect Artist rights.(!!!!!!!!) Some sort of Anti Spamming device that stops the moneymen flooding the web with what they want to sell would be good.(!!!!!) So you can find just what you are looking for instead of the stuff that makes them the most money."

The exclamation marks are mine (Ralph)

Tyke. Hang your head in shame.

Shuffling off to bed chortling serenely!

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 May 07 - 07:36 PM

Tyke writes: "You are aware that CDs are going the way of Vinyl and Cassettes and that the copyright Laws are going to change" as part of his justification for Mr Bulmer's reluctance to release his ill-gotten gains on proper CDs. Well, Mr Tyke, I remind you that this situation is hardly new, and that nobbut a few years ago you could not have forseen this particular excuse. You do appear to be fishing around a bit here.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Tyke
Date: 28 May 07 - 08:26 PM

Tyke wrote "I'm saying that the amount of CD's anyone would have to produce if the complete Bill Leader collection was to be reissued would cost millions. The storage costs would be astronomical. You are aware that CDs are going the way of Vinyl and Cassettes and that the copyright Laws are going to change. Lets hope the MCPS realize that a check of who has sold what to who is all held on the Barcode that is scanned at the check out. Then they can collect the Royalties due and pay them to person or persons who are legally entitled to receive them."

No not fishing facts I have done fishing and catching Red Herrings Steve. Dave Bulmer is responsible for running a company that has a legal responsibility to see that justifiable finance decisions are made he has shareholders to answer too. The giving away of company assets that are not his to give cannot be one that he can legaly do I would have thought.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 May 07 - 12:47 AM

I pretty-much know that if it's a Bulmer thread, it's going to be trouble sooner or later. I'm starting to get complaints. Please try to be civil and truthful.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 May 07 - 01:56 AM

Ask an artist whose work is caught up in the impasse why won't Celtic won't release the albums in the Leader/Trailer back catalogue and the answer is invariably (suitably edited): 'Sorry, I failed O-level telepathy'.

On the face of it, it makes no commercial or artistic sense of any kind and the suspicion is, therefore, that an understanding of the reasons behind the policy lies more within the province of psychiatry than music.

Are these 'shareholders' to whom Mr Tyke refers aware that artists' requests to buy back their rights are routinely refused? Can they figure out why Mr Bulmer sits on these assets 'that are not his' (according to George/Tyke) and does nothing to make any money out of them for himself, for the 'shareholders' or the artists?

Seems to me 'shareholders' have some questions to ask at the AGM. When is it, George? There is not, after all a lot of point in whingeing to Joe Offer. What can he do?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:09 AM

Message to Joe Offer.

Hi Jo. Yes you are right!
Whenever this subject comes up, either here or in any other place, it tends to escalate. As I'm sure that you are aware, the whole CM debate is a very sore point here in the UK (Quite what you guys in the US and elsewhere make of it all, I don't know!)

When this thread started, it was originally referring to a BBC Rado Documentary about seminal albums that had dropped off the Radar over the years.

I was very surprised in fact that anyone had remembered Bright Phoebus at all.

As I said yesterday, I fully expected a few days of the usual grumbling from the usual subjects (Including myself), and then it would slowly go away again.

Instead, This poster known as Tyke, has on a daily basis, fanned the flames, and I for one have sadly risen to his bait. For which I apologise.

As you say "If it is a Bulmer thread, then there is going to be trouble"

Sadly, you couldn't be more correct. And until some sort of resolution occurs, this subject will keep popping up.

You say you've had complaints? I would ask who from, but I'm not going to, that would be unfair!!! I can guess though. (I think I can safely say that it's unlikely to be from the artists side of the argument, which means.....)
But, point taken. It's a US forum, and I for one thank you and Max for allowing us UK bods in to play. I will try to curb my temper a bit more, but I'm only human, and when I see friends suffering and/or dying without justice, it's slightly annoying.

I'll consider myself spanked!

Cheers Ralphie

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:28 AM

guest28 may o7,1 46 pm,said has anyone mentioned thatBulmer hit Topic with an injunction to try and stop the Nic Jones cd Game set and match going out.
TYKE,are you seriously going to defend that action,here is NicJones,unable to play music as he used to,and Dave Bulmer allegedly tries to prevent the recording ,if this is true its disgraceful,as you are a friend of Daves perhaps you could clarify the matter.,Do youknow whether this happened or not.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:32 AM

I was recently castigated in another thread by a Murkan for giving 'too much information' about an English issue and I replied that there were constant reminders that this was a US forum and I was simply filling in background to bridge two nations divided by a common language (and sometimes the reverse).

You do do things very differently over there: contracts, royalties, indeed the whole musbiz set-up is not (yet) universally globalised. We even spell that last word differently. And the contributions from Mr Greenhaus indicate that he really does not grasp how seriously some of us take the ongoing CM tragedy.

So it's a difficult course to steer when, time and time again, the 'truth' is (usually) 'civilly' related, only for the usual suspects to churn out (whether through ignorance or bloodymindedness) the same old, now becoming very smelly, herrings.

So I apologise (there's another one) Joe, if you are finding this tedious. But I hope you will endeavour (and another) to understand ust how important it is.

Meanwhile, I await news of the CM AGM. As I have re-cookied. George/Tyke (or anyone else) could PM me. Though I'd rather see it posted here. It's not off-topic after all, is it?

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:35 AM

Referring to the injunction on Topic, Dick Miles said:

Do you know whether this happened or not

It did.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:45 AM

Dick, the answer to your question re Game, Set, Match is an unequivocal YES!!
TOPIC records have always done the decent thing by Nic, and the Game ,Set, Match CD (along with "In Search of" and "Unearthed") a fitting tribute to a fine musician. Hats off to TOPIC for going for it.
The sadness is that the real treasures (The first 4 Discs) are still lost to the world.
Regards Ralphie
(Oh and Dick, I know it's hard but I would urge you to consider Mr Offers pleas. It would be a shame if this thread were closed down. The more people worldwide, the better it is. so bite your tongue occasionally!!!!)

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 May 07 - 05:05 AM

I noted JOE OFFERS comments,and posted a question,that was perfectly polite.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 May 07 - 05:30 AM

Dick.
And a very good question it was too!
How interesting that the Topic/Bulmer subject made its way to Ireland.!!
If your lost album and the mexborough stuff ever see the light of day, my cheque will be in the post!!!

Regards Ralphie (Not having a go, honest Guv!)

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin I-O-M
Date: 29 May 07 - 07:56 AM

I understand that the shareholders (to whom Mr B must "consider") are Dave Bulmer and Neil Sharpley - for CM Records Ltd. The other shareholder for another DB company is Ruth Bulmer who is co shareholder with DB at Loyalware Ltd. Take the change out of that.

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 May 07 - 08:56 AM

Hi Andy.
Like the name "Loyalware LTD"
R

Subject: RE: Bright Phoebus/Watersons/Bulmer
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 May 07 - 10:01 AM

I have started a new thread called Morality of collecting,which mentions Dave Bulmer and asks opinions about paying contributors for their efforts.