Rather than start an interminable argument over minutiae, I will just point out that in India and China, seen by many New Agers as the twin fonts of wisdom, those who can afford to use western medicine, not the traditional forms. When results are all that matters, science is the only thing that works consistently.

Mack:

There is another font of Wisdom (Hawai'i).

You are absolutely correct. Results is all that matter. With these skeptics, and you list results; they dismiss the results as anecdotal. We mystics can not get them to think outside the box, or to even try this spiritual technology to see if it works for them, (when they get to be judge, jury, and prosecutor).

From your "mouth watering" quotes she sounds like she's putting a new spin on the New Age, not building a bridge for skeptics.

SRS: If we mystics WERE to build a bridge; the skeptics would not have the courage to walk across it

*daylia* you ought to move to farm country - they could use your help. You have more bullshit in your post than a farmer puts on 1000 acres in ten years. The one thing you have proven is that your IQ is below 70 or you wouldn't believe that grabage.

Skeptic: What have you proven other than you have a small mind and a small heart?

Daylia and I have seen these mystical things work time after time. To us mystica this is NOT BS. This spiritual technology WORKS!

From my tone, you can probably guess that I'm a sceptic. Not that I want to be, of course. I would love to be able to believe that a quartz crystal can cleanse my chakras or that remotely channelled reiki energy can heal the damaged ligaments in my knee, but I have yet to see proof.

metal into gold, I have seen people being exploited and even damaged by 'New Age' practitioners - including one woman I know who went blind through diabetes because she believed her 'healer' and not her GP.

Gervase: I HAVE seen the proof; that lifeforce energy (hands on and via distance) works.

Read my website about Tammy F's hand, and ask Daylia about her friend Mike, and Joy H who attended my HUNA workshop in Atlanta last November. Joy had hurt her foot some time before, and she was in serious pain. Both Daylia and I had done healings and absolutely NOTHING happened. I figured her subconscious mind was blocking the healing by feeling as if she deserved to be in pain; so I asked her what the injury was keeping her from doing, after a bit of persuasion; she admitted that she liked to dance, so I gathered another surcharge of energy and this visualized her dancing. then after about two minutes.; Joy smiled and said "Two Bears; I don't know what just happened; but I fest something shift in my foot." and for the redt of the day at the workshop; she was walking around free of pain.

Gervase; about the diabetic you mentioned above. When I give a workshop; I tell people of a healer says something like that; they should RUN. and furthermore; these healing modalities should NEVER be used in place of receiving proper health care.

I wonder if our guest would trade in those massages for the medical/scientific side of things if they were lying in bed, their body ravaged by cancer or with their failing liver slowing poisoning the body.

Sledge; with Chemotherapy; the scientists are trying to kill the cancer before the chemo therapy kills the patient.

continually trumped or debunked by science. Skeptics are important for debunk frauds like the "healers" from the Philippines who palm chicken livers and do phony surgery for gullible believers. There are always going to be people in the world who need to be protected from themselves, because they don't have the tools to figure out a scam when it's put in front of them.

SRS: did they actualy record the Philapine healers palming chicken liver on video tape? or did a debunker like the Unamazing Randi try to explain a real healing as palmed chicken liver palmed in the healers hand?

I have a Friend Claire E. and Claire and her husband Peter (a medical doctor) went to Brazil to meet Joao de Deus (John of God). Since Peter was a medical doctor he was asked to observe the surgeries up close and personal, and he saw John of God cut people open without anisthetic (SP). the incisions did not hardly bleed, and Jogn of God prodeeded to remove tumors weighing several pounds, and Peter was looking for fraud, and saw none. when they returned home Peter said "I don't know what to believe any more"

I wish these skeptics would go there and observe THAT healer!

In the Bill Moyers series about healing in China; they record a MD who is doing brain surgery on a woman who is awake and talking whle the MD is working on different areas of this woman's brain.

I wish the debunkers would watch that video then speak to the patient, MD, and Qigong master who blocked the flow of ch'i so the MD could cut the top of thay woman's skull off, then continued to block the flow of ch'i so the patient was not unconscious from the pain. the MD was literaly talking to the patient while he operated on her

ANL - 2B