Well I've joined, so LH can getoff his tenterhooks (ow, ow)- subtle irony? About as subtle as an elephant's fart - or was that just Carol being ironic in her turn?

Perhaps because I have just joined I will kind of state my point-of-view clearly and simply, rather than responding to others as I have so far.

Spirituality: I'm for it. We can't live without it. You can believe whatever you want, and view the world the way you want to and it's fine by me. If you choose to discuss your spirituality on a public thread I may disagree with you, while in no way denying your right to be into whatever you want. The only exception to this rule is if your spirituality has notable negative effects, eg a desire to convert/burn/bore everyone else, allow your children to die because the treatment doesn't gel with your beliefs, or destroy other people's books/art/temples.

Science: a tool only. Nothing whatever to do with spirituality in normal circumstances.

My main gripe: when people claim unproven things do exist, eg the power of crystals, levitation, some alternative healing techniques, 'magic' in the dictionary sense of the word etc, and offer no proof or evidence. When they then claim that the scepticism they then experience is an arrogant attack on their spirituality. When they continue to put forward these claims and complain, while all the time saying that it's no one else's business what their spiritual beliefs are.

Main point: spirituality is a very subjective thing, but the phenomena under discussion are claimed to have an OBJECTIVE reality. No one can 'prove' your spirituality, but if you claim that an aspect of your spiritual path is objectively true in the world exterior to yourself than THAT can be proven or disproven, and it's certainly legitimate to have a good poke at it if no adequate evidence is forthcoming.

Bows and walks off.