Thanx Jeri, I am posting what I know hoping to save some folks extra time or expense getting to these licks, but I agree a person can have a lot of fun just playing too, any help is very welcome :0)

n=down bow and v=upbow '-'=note is longer, from 1/8 to 1/4 slur=playing any number of notes in one upbow or downbow
Also just changing the string though it sounds like a change of bow is treated as a slur! But it ain't. Kinda confusing here. They say a student can use the second position to get around these little problems. Hummmmmm.

A general rule I got from both Celtic and Bluegrass Fiddlers, unless there are other bowing marks, the rule for all commontime tunes is
/nvnvnvnv/where the notes are all 1/8 but if a 1/4 note occurs - fairly often I find ! - /n-nvnvnv/. This creates a slur which you may not want - in that case the bow has to be picked up and returned without sounding any strings. Although it can be done it takes some practice to keep the rhythm.

The position of a long note in the bar can have a BIG effect on the tune. So it is worth while trying different tricks, slur 3 then 5 notes etc, or return the bow and continue as if you did an upbow, another I seen which aint it IMHO is to split the long note with a fancy silent bow turn - sounds like the bow does not change directions. That one is way too hard for me!

Course if the tune came from another fiddler and you like it the way it is - then ignore these tips.

For some reason, fiddlers recommend playing on the 'draw' or as some have it 'Pulling' the bow. And sure enough when I slowed down some oldtimey fiddling, from different parts of the world, it does indeed appear that if the tune has a strong rhythmic point most of the time downbows are used.

There is one notable exception to that general rule, Country USA 'shuffle bowing' and variations in Cajun fiddling. I associate shuffle with the Southern style but it is popular elsewhere. Also Irish trad includes some pretty jazzy licks, like upbowed licks where they want to make a triplet or some other effect.

Shuffle Bowing.
/n-vn v-nv/There is one big note and two little ones in each bunch. The second part is a reverse of the first.(Tip to overseas fiddlers, when you play the long notes give em e-x-t-r-a- bow leingth and dwell on that l-o-n-g sound BUT you may shorten up the little ones. Take a good half of the bow for the 1/4 note GAURANTEED Southern sizzlin fiddle)

These bow movements may also mark out a melodic line, so n- is the note E but vn are f#g in a variation of Old Joe Clark I have on cassette. When this system is slowed down and different notes filled in the little beats, the music begins to rock n roll :0)