Martin Gibson, could I say how pleasant it is to see you posting sensible arguments and comments instead of swearing and generally carrying on like a maniac. Why don't you do that more often? Or is it just CarolC who brings out the worst in you? (what is her problem by the way? Anyone who disagrees with her is an instant bigot).

Perhaps we should have a special thread on CarolC - should be up to 500 posts, 90% from her, in no time!

For the benefit of the thread, I don't think religion is rubbish per se, but the three monotheisms in particular have got a lot of rubbish to answer for. It is scarcely a wonder that secular people look on religion with a cold eye sometimes when people of these religions (to be fair, not the Jews so much - they were usually kicked rather than kickers) spent - and still spend, one more than others - so much time trying to butcher, burn, ostracise and marginalise secular thought for so long.