I can't answer much of your 9:23 AM post, Esteban, because I can't figure out the context.

It presupposes a belief in God however, Joe. (see earlier post)

Can't figure out what you're answering.

But nobody can fire you, Joe, you are certainly right there. Not if they didn't hire you in the first place.

But although I have always and openly disagreed with some Church practices that you consider essential to Catholicism, I have served as a religious teacher of both adults and youth, as a delegate to a diocesan synod, as a pastoral council member and president in two parishes, and in many other positions - so perhaps the Cahtolic Church does not require as rigid a discipline and obedience as you suggest.

And yes, you are right "Catholics are supposed to obey the Pope's directives in certain matters"
I would like to know though, who said obedience was voluntary?

They stopped burning people at the stake five centuries ago. Look at the birth control issue - millions of devout Catholics simply ignore the Pope's directives on that issue, figuring correctly that a celibate senior citizen really can't understand their sex lives. A pope can issue a decree and huff and puff all he wants to get people to obey it - but that decree will be obeyed only if it is credible. And it has been Church teaching for centuries that Church doctrine must be in accord with the sensus fidelium - the Pope can only decree what the people already believe. Doctrine must also be rational, and backed by solid theology. When a pope oversteps that authority, what results is bad doctrine, and it will not withstand the test of time.

Someone said up the thread a bit that a new Pope could sign away quite a lot with the stroke of a pen.
Is this not the case, then Joe?

Yes, I'm the one who said it. In arbitrary matters and matters that are not an essential part of Church teaching, the Pope can make changes with the stroke of a pen - the same can be done by the CEO of any organization. Celibate priesthood is one of those matters - only the Latin rite of the Catholic Church requires celibacy of priests. Many parts of the Catholic Church have had married priests since the beginning of Christianity, and the Latin Rite only began to require it in 1215.

One perfect example of what can be changed with the stroke of a pen is the prohibition against eating meat on Fridays. There was some unsound teaching that went on, that gave people the impression they could burn in hell for a Friday hamburger, but that really wasn't the case. There was an element of "identity" that was good about universal meatless Fridays for Catholics - the universality of it gave Catholics solidarity and identity, just as Kosher laws help Jews maintain their awareness of their identity as a chosen people.

But the mistaken teaching gave Catholics a twisted concept of morality as being the following of arbitrary laws, and the abolition of meatless Fridays was a healthy thing. Catholics in most dioceses are still required to abstain from meat on Fridays in Lent, and they fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday - but most bishops are careful to assure people that it is not sinful to eat meat on Fridays in Lent.

The ordination of women and the prohibition against "artificial" birth control are similar matters, although it is a bit more complex. They are not essential factors of Catholic belief, and neither issue has a solid body of theology to support it. Both could be changed with a stroke of a pen.

Abortion is another matter. I think you might see a new pope take a new approach to the matter, but you will never see church approval of abortion. I believe you will see the abandonment of the effort to get governments to criminalize abortion, and the hysterical right-wing anti-abortion campaign may be replaced by a more positive and all-encompassing campaign to encourage respect for life - a campaign that includes the issues of warfare and capital punishment and euthanasia and other issues.

I think you may be surprised at what might change with a new pope. The Creed and the Sacraments and Scripture and love of neighbor have always been the essential elements of Catholic teaching - everything else is open to change. Since the Reformation, the Catholic Church has been slowly returning to those three essential elements - Creed, Sacraments, Scripture, and love of neighbor. The pace of that return quickened in the twentieth century, especially after Vatican II. Authority, money, and power now play a much less important part in the Catholic Church than they did in 1500, or even 1950. In 1950, sermons still pushed people to obey the authority of Holy Mother Church, and the name of Jesus Christ was rarely mentioned from the pulpit. That's not the case now. Since Vatican II and through the reign of John Paul II, the Church has continued to turn its emphasis toward spirituality and social justice - and away from authority and power. Outsiders don't really notice this, but the change has been consistent.

Throughout his papacy, John Paul II wrote extensively - about prayer, spirituality, and social justice. Authority and power were never major aspects of his papacy, although there certainly were people in his administration who abused authority and power. I may disagree with some of the things he did as pope, but I still admire him. He was a good man.

-Joe Offer-