Hi, John M, Happy New Year. Hope to see you before too long. I am wary of defining traditions too closely to the extent that they become self-sustaining entities. While the "Orange Tradition" is a worthy tradition, I don't see it as outside and alien to the Irish Tradition, but as an aspect of same. After all, we talk of Donegal style fiddling and Conamara Sean Nós singing etc. but no one tries to give any of these an independant existence. They are all facets of the one Irish Tradition. Externally inspired and politically motivated ideas of what amounts to racist elitism has proved the curse of this country for far too long. Henry