bill d. - your philosophy professor sure did a great job of making you objective ;) giving you his rules of discussion ;). But sticking to that. You say mathematics. fine take mathematics to its logical end and you will get to G-d. Say science and take it to the furthest end of where it cannot be explained anymore (like where did the particles that banged come from) and you will have to get to infinity - infinite being G-d. Etc. Any true quest to the complete end of the discipline will actually lead to G-d. I have friends from all these education backgrounds who took the long route "home" by starting out atheists, exploring their own expertise until its very starting point and getting to G-d. Its like finding a long rope and begin tugging it and walking along, until you find its frayed end. However, most folks would rather wrap themselves round and round in that rope and tangle themselves, instead of explore it to its source. Yah, 1+1=2, what makes it so...etc. Its like that scientific study that traced all origins of man and found that we all come from one couple. shocking, ain't it? What fascinated me about that science story is the way "intellectual" people who did not want to come to religion ended up saying, "either the story of Adam and Eve is true OR all the other couples didn't have children that survived." ah, yes, logic warped to fit our lifestyles.