Great post, great thread 282RA (Right Ascension?). The right question Q, how do you define civilization? Aside from all the regionally motivated quips, civilization is as old as mankind and seems to have its roots in innate mammal/animal behaviors, i.e. cooperation for survival. It may even go back as far as specie recognition! What an infinitely marvelous thing Life is! The degree of sophistication so early on in human development indicates a transforming point shift that became modern man. That alteration in nature has not yet seen its fulfillment and what it ultimately means is still before us. Will it end in disaster? Or a gradual shift to a new evolution? Can't say. Arthur Clarke and other writers of the Sci Fi genre have dealt with this theme for many years. Good thread. I hope to study this further when I return to my own machine.