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The Mudcat Cafesj

User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
Ireland BS: The Irish Peace Process (294* d) RE: BS: The Irish Peace Process 04 Apr 09

I will never defend Willie Frazer and his supporters but I can understand how they can be the way they are,and that they are just as much victims as anyone is in the land. He has family murdered, some say under suspicious circumstances. He has said that he has no problem with the ordinary Catholic and that he would support them if contacted, do not know how much of that was tongue in cheek though.

"as you will recall, those burned out of their homes en masse in the early days of the troubles; in addition the civil rights protestors who were attacked for demanding what we all now take for granted."

This was not specific to the Catholic community, the Falls had Catholics and the Shankill Protestants who mourned their neighbours getting burnt out of their homes. The "ghettoizing" of those areas by the terrorists groups led to the hard lined attitudes.

After all it does no ones cause any good to have so-called antagonists living peacefully together. The CRM had Protestant members also we need to remember these important details.

"remember "I Ran Away"?" Also remember the border campaign leading up to the 1960's, we are all living under the legacy of one act or another do we let it destroy us or take the real chance of peace and run with it.

I will concede to certain things that contributed to our turmoil but hands have to go up on both sides to enable this peace to grow, honesty is more than just called for it is the bedrock to build the peace on and it cannot be cracked by half truth's from either side.

You cannot say it was solely the loyalists actions that brought about the "troubles", too simplistic and a half truth, the border campaign started why? No murder gangs were running the streets then (in no way am I justifying the murdering scum you talk about) but they were not to blame for starting that failed IRA campaign.

Do we really need to argue the whole bs all over again,our problems stemmed from those who were too easy to be lead by half truth and those who were only too willing to spout those half truths and lead us, and that applies to both sides.

In all your writings on N.Ireland not once have you examined the Republics role and the reason why is known only to you. Suffice for me to say that no one talks about Ireland without having some knowledge of both sides of the borders involvement.

Basically I do not want to go tit for tat and what I am saying is the fault is not all one sided if your a fair minded person you will see there are no innocents and that some people have a reason for the views they had (I am not referring to terrorists acts). Not that they were good enough reasons by to-days standards but is that not the case in all history.

For instance during partition the general opinion was the republic for Catholics and the North for Protestants, a reasonable opinion at that time.

Only problem was that thought was carried out off it's time and built upon by bigots taking advantage of the prejudices carried out by the establishments (Catholic Church)of the Republic. I will not go into the hardships placed upon protestant and mixed marriages etc as I said they were used to stir hatred among the ignorant.

'we need to defend our communities' and our only crime was loyalty and other bs excuses for being in existence. They were seen for what they were excuses.I see very few reports on them because of that nonsense everyone saw through it,these asswipes destroyed communities and only protected their loyalty to the £.

Did you look at the early Panorama reports in the link not much siding with loyalists and that set the trend, I am not really getting your objections and connection to the media etc. Let the fault lie where it truly belongs at the feet of those who carried out terrorists acts and those who lead them. I do not know who was worse those who were easily led or those who done the leading.

"for example the fatal ambush by SAS of PIRA at Loughgall" it was "fatal" ambush that misled me, sorry I am used to the whinge by some at IRA being shot by military.

I am not going to deny the Gov did not use propaganda but question if it was to prolong the troubles,that was an unwanted side effect,too much pain was being caused to want the crap to continue.

What made it hard for the average mainland Briton was that they simply did not want to know, any voting was vetoed by the Unionist block vote, which kept that idiot Paisley in power far far too long.

Hindsight is wonderful, but we should have had Stormont up and running long long ago it would have neutralised that unionist block voting.

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