CS,

Generally, just so you know, Irish footie fans behave rather differently to English fans and as a result internatonal fixtures generally have something of a carnival atmosphere.

The point above is really just an indication of how the Irish have adopted stereotyped and cliche'd aspects of British culture with as much zeal as some brits have adopted Irish culture.

Just as have many Asians, Africans etc.

There are probably more "committed" Man U fans in India than in the rest of the world put together.

And the humourous pickings and parallels for the critical observer are plenty.

As for your comments regarding football and panto, there is no point me saying well you obviously know nothing about it because you have stated that yourself.

The question is, how can you judge with such scorn something that you admit you know nothing about - your impressions of footie culture confirming that fact.

I had earlier considered the possibility that the scorn poured on "plastic paddies" derives from a similar type of apparent class snobbery.

Footbal is a significant part of British and Irish culture, particularly at working class level, but also beyond that.

The reality is that I have endless numbers of Irish relatives aged 40 upwards who love danny boy etc and loads of all ages who love to sing along to Ride on etc and who don't see any need to refer to Plastic Paddies. They just enjoy having a good time to some old songs and they enjoy the singers. The more conservative ones like the johnny logan versions, and the others will happily get into a night of paddy mcginty's goat etc.

The youth go to football and rugby matches dressed in shamrocks, leprechaun beards and guinness hats. Afterwards they drink copious amoiunts of Guinness and sing Ole Ole Ole and the fields of Athenry.

All classic Plastic Paddy behaviour according to those with the required "insight" to tell the difference.

They get drunk, they live the cliches and they have a damn good time and they don't give a monkeys about terms like "plastic paddy" which have been imported.

The thing that attracts me to the Americans over the "plastic paddy" critics is there lack of judgementalism.

I'll bet those ageing Americans were like many of the Ageing Americans here.

I'll bet they aren't shallow or easily pigeonholed once you get to know them.

I'll bet they each had interesting experiences and perspectives on life that run much deeeper and resonate more powerfully than any cheap term like Plastic paddy ever could.

Folks on here are free to like or dislike the bawdy side of Irish culture, and they are free to like or dislike a song by Eric bogle.

But all this value judgement, pigeon holing and definition of terms on the subject of a nation of free individuals is quite frankly a load of bollox.

And as with all stereotypes and caricatures, it is a fabrication and represents noone.