janie, i do hope you are not refering to me?

i agree bruce, we should know how to protect ourselves. however if we don't we should be able to rely on family and friends being suportive enough to help us go to the police. juries can do their bit in not judging the woman before they have all the facts.

there are points i agree with. that people can get themselves into very stupid situations, but we all do it! we don't go around accusing people because they have made a mistake. it seems with this crime there is always a doubt about blame. as well as blame though we should have compassion. i take the point tht a menatly unstable person, isn't always in control of what they do, this does not mean they are any less in the wrong if they rape someone.

if only all parents were so supportive in teaching their kids to get out of trouble, but not scare them about the world either. it is, as most things educational, a balancing act.

as for society at present, we have problems yes. i have no answers to combat bing drinking for example, as i am not around kids very much.
the fashion of skimpy clothing although a red herring in as far as rape goes, is more a case of following the trends. not being able to decide what looks good on the lass concerned, but wearing what is in fashion.
i am sure that every generation thinks the sme way about the youngsters dress sense as well as their musical taste, that is just the way of the world, the younger ones finding their own thing.

as for the provication, well all i can say is if someone wins you up and you hit them, although a crime if you have tried to walk away and have been followed, then you have shown suffient restraint in my eyes. rape is different. i do not believe for an instant that someone can't control their lust.
i am sure we have all at some stage stopped or been stopped before being satisfied? i know how incredibly frustrating that can be, but to lead to forcing someone? getting up storing around and sulking i find ordinary, but rape? no.

now to lizzie, yes you have answered some of the things i have put to you, but whenever i try to ask you where the line is, you duck out. the lifting a girls top, a woman who won't stop?
the issue was some people can't help it, i wanted to know at what stage does this first start for you?
you are right though, the answers you did give me i didn't like and quite frankly i don't understand.
i don't understand how you can rant about having womans rights one day and be against them the next.
i don't understand how you want to be free of the fear of judgment when you judge others so harshly.
i don't understand that you say rape is wrong, and no means no, then in the next sentance say that only applies in certain situations.

take care all, not sure i will be posting anymore as this has run it's course but i would like to try to get people who haven't been there to understand. without i hope, having to go through it for yourselves. i wish it on no one.
jade x x x