Keith you unravelling like this far exceeds my greatest expectations.

But you have gone absolutely mental.

The only true figure you've quoted is that according the the HPA, HIV prevalence rates amongst MSM's 15-44 might be as high as 8.5%

Your comment:

"So well over 10% of MSMs are infected.
Probably 12% to 15% or even 20%"

Is just hyperbole with no support and you need to withdraw it.

We established from this

http://www.avert.org/gay-people.htm

That at least 6.3% of men are MSM's that have had "genital sex". More if you include other forms of sexual contact, and the point of that survey is that numbers identifying and self-reporting as gay keep growing.

I genuinely haven't managed to find a way of removing, say, under 15's from the population statistics to make a totally like for like comparison with the STI/HIV figures that start recording at age 15 upwards - please feel free to do it.

But as a rough indication, if there are 63mm people in the country then should be about 31.5mm men and if at least 6.3% are gay then there are at least 1,984,500 gay men.

Your data here:

http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1203928687610

Says there are an estimated 32,000 MSM that are HIV+, that is an overall prevalence of 1.6%

So, Keith, piss off with your ignorant, lying, bilious attacks on gay men.

Is that clear enough for you?

Keith on Gay men and HIV

"Probably 12% to 15% or even 20%
For comparison, the great flu pandemic of 1918 killed 3% of population, and the Great Plague of 1665 killed 15% "

Like I said, Keith, your implosion has exceeded my wildest expectations.

Bloody fabulous!

GfS, I still have some of your more sensational comments ringing in my ears - you said that you kick out (or words to that effect) when pushed, maybe it stops people from listening to what you were saying before the 'kick'.

When I went back to read the stuff going on when I came into the thread, the really offensive stuff wasn't coming from you, but from Ake. I want to acknowledge that openly. What you were saying about the ex-gay movement and the assumptions that we are all suffering from something that needs to be cured are wrong-minded and do cause offence: but you do not set out to be offensive - until that 'kick' comes.

I have a lot more respect for you and for Ake, who are at least honest (to me) even if I believe you to be wrong.