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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
GUEST,josep BS: The God Delusion 2010 (2256* d) RE: BS: The God Delusion 2010 13 Sep 10


//J:

Proving there is no such thing as total unconsciousness during a lifetime does not prove anything about the state preceding or following that lifetime, logically. As it happens, I agree with what underlies your assertions, but your logic is flawed.

Proving there is no commerce of any sort on Sunday does not prove the non-existance of commerce, either.


A//

Perfectly true but that wasn't where I was going with it. IF you admit that there is no such state as absolute unconsciousness, then you are forced to consider that death does not extinguish consciousness. That doesn't mean that this is the case but you are forced to consider that it might be. If, on the other hand, you do concede that there is such a state, then it would be characterized as missing time.

Missing time is a hallmark of total unconsciousness since one could not have been aware of anything whatsoever. One was completely shut down, as it were. If this be the case, then it stands to reason that one could not be conscious during that period. Likewise, if death extinguishes consciousness, one's entire life becomes missing time meaning one was never conscious during that period. Since one was conscious during that period--contradiction. Conclusion: Death does not extinguish consciousness.

If your memories don't start accumulating until after T0 at birth and yet death wipes them clean at T1, then when do your memories accumulate? Yet to be conscious you must have the ability to remember events an infinite number of times if you choose and nothing can interfere with that without causing a radical alteration of your consciousness.

Here's a thought experiment that might better illustrate the point: Suppose a sadistic scientist invented a machine that could instananeously repair all physical trauma and totally erase all mental trauma and this machine truly does work. Now, he makes you an offer: For one million dollars in cash tax free, no strings attached, he offers to strap you down and torture you for 15 minutes. There will be a large clock there so you can watch the minutes roll by. The torture will be horrific and painful beyond anything any human has ever endured. It was be bloody, you will suffer the most excruciating dismemberment and flaying. Most importantly, you will be fully conscious the whole time and will feel everything and be spared nothing. At the end of 15 minutes, the machine kicks on and instaneously indemnifies you. Your body is perfectly healed and you have no memory whatever of being tortured. He unstraps you and hands you one million in cash.

The torture will be missing time. It will seem that he strapped you down and then the clock instantaneously jumped forward 15 minutes and then he unstraps you--none the worse for wear--and gives you your money.

Would you do it?


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