////I don't know a single atheist who thinks that atheism proves anything ////

Well I do.

///...but, oh dear, we've lost it again. There is no proven or disproven on either side. 'T'aint possible.///

Yes there is a disproven. If the atheist counterargument doesn't disprove the theist argument then there is no such thing as reason.

We have rules in debate and one rule is that a conclusion of an argument cannot be contained in the premise. That's loading the argument. So if I expose the presupposition, I have disproven the argument. There's not getting around that.

///Perhaps you could clarify for me just what these mythical "material realists" do or say that puts them beyond atheism...///

I've already stated it if you'd read what I wrote instead of automatically NEEDING to gainsay every goddamn thing I say no matter what it is. I've run into too many people who call themselves atheists who believe that death is final--when you're gone you're gone. That consciousness is produced epiphenomenally from matter and is an illusion and does not survive the death of the body. They believe this is implicit in atheism. And they can NOT admit that it is just a belief no different than a religious belief and that it has nothing to do with atheism. They are so convinced that they are just too logical and intelligent to hold anything other than perfectly reasoned conclusions unlike regular flawed mortals. Don't know anyone like that, you say? Doesn't sound at all familiar, eh?

///Atheism might well mean that in literal translation but atheists are far less than "not theists." You're making the severe mistake, common among non-atheists (God, I love that - gotcha, berstids!!), of trying to define us on religion's territory. I should add the bleedin' obvious, of course: atheism was not designed by anybody for anything.///

Err...um...hmmm...I'm an atheist. I do not accept theism because the atheist counterarguments DISPROVE theist arguments to my satisfaction. If am religious, pray tell what religion I am. I'm dying to know!!