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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
GUEST,Paul Seligman Are racist, but traditional, songs OK? (405* d) RE: Are racist, but traditional, songs OK? 14 Oct 11


Thanks to all for contributing to the debate I started.

I am heartened that I was not alone in my reaction to this event, and I am glad that folkies are interested to discuss the principles, in many cases very thoughtfully.

A few other thoughts:

•        I'm surprised at the many fundamentalists who say you mustn't change a word of a folk song – I thought that was the 'folk process' and not the preservation of sacred texts, except for academic or historical purposes. And there are usually many versions of any truly traditional song, as has been pointed out in the thread, so it happens all the time.

•        Child was an academic (a professor at Harvard). A commemorative article in the 2006 edition of the Harvard Magazine states:

<<< He made no attempt to conceal or apologize for the sexuality, theatrical violence, and ill-concealed paganism of many ballads, but it is characteristic of the man that in his introduction to "Hugh of Lincoln," an ancient work about the purported murder of a Christian child by a Jew, he wrote, "And these pretended child-murders, with their horrible consequences, are only a part of the persecution which, with all moderation, may be rubricated as the most disgraceful chapter in the history of the human race" >>> (quoted from Wikipedia)

•         I am generally against censorship, book burning etc. However, society collectively accepts certain restrictions on liberty and free speech, such as (in the UK) laws against speech likely to incite race hatred or violence. Before these laws were introduced, discrimination in employment, sales and services was commonplace and it was still possible to see notices for accommodation stating things like 'no blacks, no Irish, no dogs'. The restrictions on speech were bitterly resented but the changes in law did help lead society to a more tolerant place.

•        I didn't think it necessary to explain that when Steeleye Span sang of a 'lady gay' they were not using the word in its modern meaning of homosexual; I was wrong.

•        'Merchant of Venice' is one of the greatest works in English. Aware that his audience would harbour anti-Semitic stereotypes and initially jeer the Jew, Shakespeare first explains the extreme pressure on Shylock resulting in his deranged demand, and then shows us the essential humanity he shares with all people ('if you prick us, do we not bleed?' etc). Hugh of Lincoln has no such nuances.

•        I hadn't thought of 'Black Girl/In the Pines/Where Did You Sleep Last Night' as racist ('black' is not generally considered offensive per se in the UK, we have just had Black History Week, for example). I sometimes sing it to myself when walking though pine woods. I don't think I'll stop now.




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