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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
GUEST,Iona BS: Young Earth Creationism Eureka! (1606* d) RE: BS: Young Earth Creationism Eureka! 03 Feb 12

I have no intention of pandering to your attempts to claim that only Christians know the difference.

Don Firth's recent offering does a pretty good job of showing the evil that lurks in that book you so revere.

The average atheist would never be so amoral as to accept it as the word of any moral or ethical authority.

Fundamentalists, such as yourself, are apparently just that amoral. You give genuine Christians a bad name.

I'm pleased to see you so indignant over evil. That proves my point, which is this:
Without Christianity, there can be no evil, no good. Everything is relative without a Christian worldview. I have a basis for defining evil. But atheists don't. So the only way that you can call some of the laws in the Bible "Evil" is by standing on the very presuppositions that the Bible provides--that there are such things as moral absolutes.
Until you are able to establish a foundation of your own without borrowing from the Christian worldview, you have no basis for judging me or anything else. For you, there is no good and there is no evil. And yet you sit here accusing me of being "amoral", "Giving 'genuine Christians' [whatever those are!] a bad name"--you say that the Bible contains "evil", and you state that there are morals and ethics. Splendid! Now, please stop borrowing those terms from my worldview. In an athiestic worldview, there is no good, no evil, no morals and no ethics. For instance, I'm assuming you would call child abuse wrong. Am I correct?
I'll assume you would. All right, by what standard is it wrong? Because you disapprove of it? Because it causes discomfort to your mind? Because it causes discomfort to the child?


One thing's for certain - there's been plenty of evil down the ages that has derived from a Christian world view, no matter how you "define evil."

Again, I'm glad to see that you are indignant over the evil that exists in the world. To be sure, the fact that you call some things 'evil' proves the point that you aren't as good of an atheist as you say you are. How can you call anything evil? Isn't it 'different strokes for different folks'? How can you call what "Christian Worldview" has produced "evil"? What is evil?
I have a reason for believing in absolute right and wrong--but you don't.

Trying to debate with the likes of Iona is pointless. What matters is presenting a clear description of how science works and what the scientific method is and what it can achieve. As Shimrod said, it is not about 'absolute truth'.

But you must have absolute truth if you're going to debate rationally. After all, if there are no absolutes, if 'what's true for you isn't necessarily true for me' . I could pull a gun and shoot you in order to win my argument. Why shouldn't I? Would you protest if I pulled a gun on you during our discussion? If you say "Yes, you shouldn't shoot me," then you obviously believe that there is good and evil. But if you say "No, it's all relative", then I am completely reasonable to pull the trigger.
By the way, when you say that trying to debate with me is pointless, you are completely right. After all, it's not exactly an equal discussion is it, since you have to borrow my worldview in order to even come to this thread! You bring assumptions with you that aren't even yours to assume, you borrow them from my worldview.
You assume that,
1. There is absolute truth. you prove that you believe this by choosing to debate with me. If you didn't believe in absolute truth, then you wouldn't care what I said.

2. There is absolute right and wrong. All over the place I'm getting called, either indirectly and directly, 'immoral', 'evil', 'unnethical', etc.

That's only the beginning of things that you must borrow from Christianity in order to try to refute Christianity.


I do NOT have to borrow from the Christian "worldview" to define good and evil. Thinkers such as Plato, Aristotle, Siddhârtha Gautama Buddha, and many, MANY religious figures who existed LONG before Jesus, not to mention MOSES, I might add—have given answers to the question of Good and Evil. These answers are remarkably similar, and they pre-date the birth of Jesus by centuries.
And here is something YOU don't seem capable of understanding. And that is that one can figure out the nature of Good and Evil on one's own. Without having to turn to some religious figure.

YES! I'm so happy that you brought this up. The fact that all men believe somewhere in their mind that there is good and evil, that there are absolutes, etc, is proof that they really know in their heart of hearts that the God of the Bible exists. As Romans 1:20 says, "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".
You get upset when someone does something that you deem 'immoral'. but if you adhere faithfully to your worldview, then it is only immoral to you and to others who agree with you. To the person who is doing the 'immoral' thing, obviously it's not immoral to them. Their morals are different than yours, that's all. Who are you to judge?
But on my worldview, when I see someone doing something 'immoral', I can tell you why I call it immoral. I have a basis for my belief. And the fact that all the individuals you mentioned propose a fundamental belief in good and evil only proves my point--that deep in their hearts they know the God of the Bible, and they "supress the truth in unrighteousness" (Romans 1:18)


That which promotes and enriches life is GOOD.

That which is inimical to life is EVIL.

Promotes and enriches whose life? Yours? The general public? But why in the world should you care what makes other people happy? Obviously Hitler had different ethical standards than you do, because he thought that he was doing good by killing all the Jews and gypsies and the mentally handicapped. He obviously didn't adhere to your standards of good and evil, and who are you to judge him? He was doing what he thought was good!

"That which is inimical to life is evil"
Let's see, then. So self defense is evil, abortion is evil, etc. etc.... but wait, whose life are you talking about? Life in general, or your life, or.....? And why do you call it evil? Because it causes unhappiness? But what if killing someone gives a person pleasure? Then it's enriching their life---it's therefore good! Well, it's inimical to the life of the victim, so it's evil. A paradox! Good and evil at the same time. How confusing!

To be continued.......

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