The thing is, Raggytash, it doesn't matter what you say to Keith. He will not change his mind and he will repeat his facile nonsense ad nauseam in an attempt to grind down the opposition. It is not debate. You will notice that every one of his posts is brief. No argument is ever developed and there are constant and predictable appeals to authority. Cherrypicked sources are quoted but he never employs them as an organic part of his case. We are supposed to just read them (never fear: he hasn't) and work out for ourselves what it is he wants us to think he's thinking (which, of course, he isn't). If you make a point that demurs even slightly from his deluded conviction, he will, again predictably, immediately shift the goalposts. What you can definitely say, before you bother to get too tangled up with him, is that the conversation, if you engage in it,will go on forever and get you nowhere. But never fear. No- one here is listening to him. Yes, Teribus has given him succour, but there is norta scrap of enthusiasm behind the supposed advocacy. In fact, Keith must be a highly-embarrassing friend to have. Here we have a man without a life. Disagree with him ten times a day and he will be back at you twelve times (try it if you don't believe me), and there will be no delay. He's at his keyboard,waiting for you. The man is a charlatan and a waste of space. Fortunately he has no influence because he's a laughing stock. Even pete could teach him a lesson or two when it comes to maintaining just a shred of credibility. Enjoy his idiocy. Have a sarky dig every now and again, but don't engage. You have a life, after all, even if he hasn't.