The self-aggrandisement of reference to the "demos" in Greek lettering is unhelpful.

BobL puts his finger on another part of the problem.

Akenaton demonstrates, as usual, ignorance and prejudice. The USA is a federation of individual states that accept to a very large extent the sovereignty of the federal government over state rights, whatever Cliven Bundy (or should I say Cloven Bundy, snigger?) may think, and of course all US citizens are entitled to migrate freely among those individual states. Also we desperately need EU and other immigrants to staff the NHS.

There is much in what gnu and Jack Campin say. It seems to me that the arguments hinge on two big issues. First, the TUC and others are quite right that given the present UK government, the EU is a valuable bastion of equality and workers's rights. I find that more important than the arguments of accountants and Ferengi about whether Brexit or Bremain is more profitable. On the other hand TTIP is very dangerous. It is much wiser for capitalism to be under the control of democratic governments than vice versa, and TTIP and Art 106 TFEU are both very dangerous to the prospect of renationalisation (which I would wholly support) if we can get rid of the con-servatives (by any means necessary please).

So since, alas, the UK electorate is so stupid gullible and misled that we are unlikely soon the get shot of the bloody con-servatives who would go on bended knee to subject us to US capitalism, Bremaining is the wiser choice.