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Richie Origins: Madam, I Have Come To Court You (108* d) RE: Origins: Madam, I Have Come To Court You 03 Oct 17


Hi,

Here are my current updated versions of the "she answered No," songs:

8A. "Oh No, John," "No Sir," "Spanish Merchant's Daughter," and the "She answered No" songs. Roud 146 ("Spanish Captain," "Spanish Lady," "Scottish Merchant's Daughter")

Aa. "Lady why doth love torment you" from "a manuscript version of about 1635-40, in Bodleian MS Ashmole 38 (a collection of single sheets from various sources bound together)." ref. Bruce Olson.
   b. "Consent at Last" from Pills to Purge Melancholy, commencing in 1700; (III, p. 82, 1719), with a tune.
   c. "To a Lady" Janck Horntip Collection, no date given, no chorus. See in Supplemental versions below.
B. "A Warning for Maides," attributed to Richard Crimsal and "printed at London for John Wright, the younger, dwelling at the upper end of the Old-Bayley," dated circa 1636.
C. "The Dumb Lady; Or, NO, no, not I; Ile Answer," a broadside in the British Library- Roxburghe 2.111. It was printed for P. Brooksy at the Golden-Ball in Pye-Corner between 1672-84.
D. "The Denying Lady," a broadside printed by A. Milbourn, at the Stationers-Arms in Green-Arbor about 1684.
E. "Shall I? Shall I? No No," a broadside by Tobias Bowne printed by Phillip Brooksby, London c. 1684.
Fa. "Tom and Doll; or, the Modest Maid's Delight" written by Tom D'Urfey, printed among his 'Choice Songs,' p. 16, in 1684. Reprinted with music not only in the ' 180 Loyal Songs' of 1685 and 1694, p. 252, but aleo in the second volume of 'Pills to Purge Melancholy,' 1719 edition, p. 27.
   b. Song 1154. [Tom and Dolly] published in "The Aviary: Or, Magazine of British Melody. Consisting of a Collection of one thousand three hundred and forty-four songs," London, 1745.
   c. "Tom and Dolly" from a Dublin songbook; "A collection of songs: With some originals," 1769.
   d. "No Tom No" from Gardham's broadside collection M85738- single sheet, no imprint, mid-1800s
G. "No, No" sung by Mrs. Wrighten at Vauxhall in the 1770s. It's printed in "The Choice Spirit's Chaplet: Or, a Poesy from Parnassus" by George Alexander Stevens, 1771 as Song 144.
H. "No! No! The celebrated duet" which was "sung by Mr. Sinclair and Mrs. Rowbotham." It was published in a variety of music collections in the 1830s including "The American Minstrel: A Choice Collection of the Most Popular Songs, Glees, Choruses, Extravaganzas, &c." 1837.
I. Songs with the "No Sir" chorus. The UK versions in general are stanzas of "Oh No John" with a "No Sir chorus.
   a1. "No Sir." Words and Music Arr. by A. M. Wakefield, from: "The Peterson magazine," Volumes 79-80, Philadelphia, 1881. Also "Songs and Ballads: 96 Songs - words and music, W. F. Shaw," 1882 and Shaw's "Gems of Minstrel Song" dated 1882 and later in Delaney's Song Book (New York). Arranged from American tradition by Englishwoman Mary Wakefield.
   a2. "No Sir," sung by Mrs. Holmes' mother who learned the song about 1900 in Barren County, Kentucky. From: Roberts & Agey, In the Pine (1978) pp.217-218. Recorded in 1958. Cf. 1881 version arranged by A. M. Wakefield.
   a3. "No Sir" from Mrs. T. N. Underwood of Correct, Ind. printed in The play-party in Indiana by Leah Jackson Wolford, 1916.
   a4. "No, Sir." From the manuscript songbook of Miss Lura Wagoner of Vox, Alleghany county, lent to Dr. Brown in 1936. (Brown Collection Vol. III); the entries in the book were probably made some twenty or more years earlier.
   a5. "No, Sir, No" sung by Mrs. Louisa Moses of Kentucky by 1930. From Harvey Fuson, Ballads of the Kentucky Highlands (1930) p. 81.
   a6. Scottish Merchant's Daughter- sung by Susie Evans Daley, of Tulsa (OK) c.1935. From Ethel & Chauncey Moore's "Ballads and Folk Songs of the Southwest," Univ. of Okla, Bk (1964).
   a7. "No Sir, No" contributed by Belle Plains High Scool as sung by Oren bewck sometimes of Belle Plains. Stout, Folklore from Iowa, 1936.
   a8. "My Father Was a Spanish Merchant," sung by Jennie Devlin (1865-1952), who worked and lived along the New York-Pennsylvania border. Collected Newman about 1937. From Never without a Song: The Years and Songs of Jennie Devlin, 1865-1952, by Katharine D. Newman.
   a9. "No, Sir, No" sung by Mrs. Grace Longino of Huntsville, Texas, May 13, 1939. From John and Ruby Lomax 1939 Southern States Recording Trip (AFC 1939/001).
   a10. "No Sir, No Sir." Sung by Mrs. Maggie Morgan of Springdale, Arkansas on Feb. 9, 1942. From: Randolph, Ozark Folksongs, Volume III, 1946. This is the text from Wakefield's 1881 arrangement.
   a11. "No Sir, No Sir" sung by Beryl Walker and Peter Diprose October 16, 1942 at Temora, a town in the north-east of the Riverina area of New South Wales, 418 kilometres south-west of the state capital, Sydney, Australia.
   a12. "Yes Sir, No Sir" sung by by Perkins Flint at Braintree Vermont, dated 11-20-1944. From: D41A - archival cassette dub, Track 06b; the Helen Hartness Flanders Ballad Collection at Middlebury College
   a13. "No Sir, No Sir." Sung by Mrs. Robert Weare and Mary Jo Davis at DeValls Bluff, Arkansas on June 15, 1954. Ozark Folksong Collection Reel 195 Item 3. Collected by Mary Jo Davis for M.C. Parler. This is Wakefield's 1881 text.
   a14. "No Sir." Sung by Oleavia Houser of Fayetteville, Arkansas on December 7, 1958. From Ozark Folksong Collection, Reel 278, Item 9. Collected by Merlyn B. Page and James R. Hayes. This is Wakefield's 1881 text.
   a15. "No, Sir." Sung by Bessie Atchley of Green Forest, on Arkansas July 7, 1960. Ozark Folksong Collection Reel 388, Item 3. Collected by M.C. Parler. Transcribed by Bessie Atchley. This is Wakefield's 1881 text.
   a16. "No Sir," sung by Jean Ritchie of Viper, Kentucky in 1961 who learned from her sister Edna Ritchie who in turn got it from a friend at Lothair Kentucky. From the Folkways Recording: "Precious Memories."
   b. "No Sir" sung by Lucy White and Louie Hooper of Hambridge on Dec. 23, 1903; collected by Cecil J. Sharp. Has stanzas of "Oh No John" with "No Sir" chorus.
   c. "No Sir, No," composite with first two stanzas from John Greening of Cuckold's Corner, Dorset in May 1906, verse 3 is from "Madam." The chorus, tune and 4-7 verses are from Mrs. Bowring of Cerne Abbas, Dorset in December 1907. Greening from Hammond Collection.
   d. "No, Sir! No" sung by Mrs. Bowring of Cerne Abbas, Dorset in Sept 1907. From Henry Hammond Manuscript Collection (HAM/5/35/15). Primarily stanzas of "Oh No John" with "No Sir" chorus.
   e. "No Sir!" Sung by Alfred Emery, Othery, Somerset on 6 April, 1908. From: Cecil Sharp Manuscript Collection (at Clare College, Cambridge) (CJS2/10/1604). Two versions of "Oh No John" text taken down by Cecil Sharp on the same day- three stanzas.
   f. "No Sir No," sung by Joseph Read of Trowbridge Workhouse, Wiltshire on 19 August, 1909. Single stanza with music from George Gardiner Manuscript Collection (GG/1/21/1427).
   g. "No Sir" sung by Lucy Garrison of Manchester, Kentucky on 11 August, 1917 as collected by Cecil J. Sharp. Stanzas of Madam and then "No Sir."
   h. "The Spanish Merchant's Daughter" performed by The Stoneman Family. "Vocal duet by Hattie and Ernest Stoneman with harmonica, violin, guitar." Recorded in Bristol, Tennessee on October 31, 1928. Original issue Victor V-40206.
  i. "No Sir, No," was sung by Mrs. W. V. Henderson of Fayetteville, Arkansas on February 23, 1950. From Ozark Folksong Collection; Reel 20 Item 6. Collected by Merlin Mitchell and transcribed by Kyle Perrin.
   j. No Sir- sung by Emily Bishop of Bromsberrow Heath, Gloucestershire, 1952. From Kennedy, Folksongs of Britain & Ireland (1975) p. 315 by Peter Kennedy. The text begins similarly to Wakefield's print version but has the extra stanza at the end from tradition.
   k. "No Sir." Sung by Mrs. W.N. Osborne. Recorded in Cord, AR, 8/21/57. Recorded by John Quincy Wolf, Jr. for The John Quincy Wolf Folklore Collection.
   l. "No Sir, No Sir," sung by Sam Larner, The Norfolk fisherman Sam Larner; recorded by Ewan McColl and Peggy Seeger about 1958. From "Now is the Time for Fishing", Topic TSCD511 and Smithsonian Folkways, 1961. Larner's version uses the somewhat bawdy "Oh No John" text with a No Sir Chorus.
J. Songs with the "Oh No John" chorus/text
   a. "Oh No John" sung by William Wooley of Bincombe in 1907, collected Sharp
   b. "No John No" sung by James Beale of Warehome, Kent on September 23, 1908. Cecil Sharp Manuscript Collection (at Clare College, Cambridge) (CJS2/9/1777).
   c1. "Oh No John" composite arranged by Sharp, published in 1911. Also One Hundred English Folksongs (1916) pp.154-155 with a new end stanza.
   c2. "Oh No John." From "Song Ballads & Other Songs of the Pine Mountain Settlement School," Kentucky, 1923; Sharp's text with one additional penultimate stanza from 1916 version.
   c3. "Oh No John." As sung by the Fuller Sisters, 1928; from "More Pious Friends and Drunken Companions: Songs and Ballads of Conviviality" by Frank Shay. Cover of Sharp's composite with extra stanza from the 1916 version.
   c4. "O No, John." From the manuscripts of Obadiah Johnson of Crossnore. Avery county, NC about 1939; Brown Collection III. Cover of Sharp's composite.
   c5. "Oh No John" sung by Paul Robeson; Recorded c. 1953. Cover of Sharp's composite.
   c6. "No John, No." As sung by the Archer Goode of Cheltenham, Gloucestershire on January 6, 1975. From: Gwilym Davies Collection, sent to me by Gwilym, attributed to Sam Bennett but this is a cover of Sharp's composite text.
   d. "No Sir, John." Sung by Mrs. Hezeltine of Cambone, Cornwall on May 12, 1913. Collected by Cecil Sharp. Composite with music from Cecil Sharp Manuscript Collection (at Clare College, Cambridge) (CJS2/10/2848). This is a composite of three songs, the first is Madam with the "No Sir" chorus.
   e. "No, John No," as sung by Bob and Ron Copper of Rottingdean, Sussex, known before 1950. Recording: The Folk Songs of Britain Volume 1; Caedmon 1961; Topic 1968-- Bob and Ron Copper sang No, John, No, recording by Peter Kennedy. Also on "Songs of Courtship" Topic Records 12T157 and Copper Family's Leader album A Song for Every Season. Printed in Early to rise: a Sussex boyhood by Bob Copper/Heinemann, 1976.
K. Songs with the "she answered No" chorus.
   a. "Haselbury Girl" fragment sung by Mrs. Balsh of Ubley Somerset on 23 April 1906. Collector: Cecil J.Sharp.
   b1. "Uh, uh No," sung by Lannis Sutton of Doxy, Oklahoma, collected by Sam Eskin in 1951. From Lomax, Folk-Songs of North America, 1960.
   b2. "All of her answers to me were No," recording by Peggy Seeger, Folk Songs of Courting & complaint; Folkways 1955. Similar to "Uh, uh No," sung by Lannis Sutton of Doxy, Oklahoma.
L. Songs with stanzas primarily of "Madam" and the "No Sir" or "she answered No" chorus
   a1. "No Sir, No" (Yonder is a comely flower) c. 1919 from "Kentucky Mountain Songs" by Wyman and Brockway.
   a2. "No Sir, No" (Yonder is a comely flower) 1928 Bradley Kincaid, "My Favorite Mountain Ballads and Songs" with stanzas from Wakefield.
   b. "Oh No, No Sir, No" sung by Mrs. Mary Brown of Greene County, PA. Collected by Bayard in 1929; from Pennsylvania Songs and Legends, Korson.
   c. "Yonder Comes a Heavenly Creature" sung by O.B. Campbell of Medford, OK, 1934. Recorded later by Max Hunter.
   d. "Madam I Have Come A-Courting" vocal performance by Jonathan Moses at Orford (New Hampshire); recorded by Helen Flanders on 08-24-1951. Learned in North Haven, Maine.
M. Songs with primarily Spanish Lady text and the "she answered No" chorus
   a. "Spanish Lady' sung by Bell Robertson of Pitsligo, Aberdeenshire; colelcted about 1906 by Gavin Greg; Greig Duncan I.
   b. "Spanish Lady" sung by Andrew Hawes of Pittsburg, New Hampshire June 18, 1943. Collected by Helen Hartness Flanders.
N. Version of "No Sir" from Tristan de Cuna
   a. "No Sir" sung by Frances Repetto of Tristan da Cunha in 1938. From Peter Munch, "Song Tradition of Tristan da Cunha" (1970) pp. 90-93 (version C).

After studying the modern versions it's clear that there are two types, The 1881 Wakefield arrangement and those that are obviously different. Some stanzas have floated to the UK and are mixed with Oh No John. In the UK "No Sir" is used for a chorus interchangeably with O No John. I still consider "O No John" and "No Sir" to be different songs possibly form a similar unknown antecedent --since they both have the Spanish merchant stanza.

Richie


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