I spent a long time typing this message. When I submitted it, I got this message: Sorry, this thread (click) is closed.

Here is the text of your post:
Well, I can't say I disagree with the closure because there were certain individuals who were wigging out in the thread; but I'll be damned if I'll forfeit all the hard work and time I expended on my post, so here it is.

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OK, logic lesson.

Gref_F questioningly quotes Joe Offer: But judging the group by acts of individuals, is what most people call Bigotry.

Greg Responds: So I'm a bigot, Joe, for judging the Ku Klux Klan? Or the Aryan Brotherhood? ACT For America? The Family Research Council? The League of the South?

In that case, what we judge is the corporate act of the group, and the acts and purposes of these groups are abhorrent.

Two different things. We judge individuals by their individual actions, and we judge groups by their corporate actions. And although we may disagree with the groups that individuals associate with, we must assess individuals individually.

In addition, if we wish to accomplish anything in this world, we will have to form alliances with people we do not completely agree with. And to do this, we must treat those individuals with respect, despite our differences. In time, we might even learn to appreciate those differences and learn from them.

I don't think I could ever agree completely with Freemasons, but there are so many things I like about them. One of the National Treasure movies was set in the context of Freemasonry, and it gave a good taste of the fascinating lore and history and mythology of Freemasonry. I've mentioned the architecture above. Several times, I've enjoyed visiting the George Washington Masonic Memorial in Alexandria, Virginia. It attempts to be a replica of the lighthouse at Alexandria, Egypt - one of the Seven Wonders of the World. Inside is a museum of Masonic artifacts, all very interesting. The memorial is not only a lighthouse replica, it's an obelisk, a important emblem of Freemasonry - as is the Washington Memorial across the Potomac in Washington DC.

I suppose one could say that much of the lore of Freemasonry is fakelore; but it has been part of Freemasonry for so long that I think it also deserves to be considered as folklore.

One could also say that the underpinnings of Freemasonry are myth. But hey, I belong to a religion that has its own myth, so I don't have any problem with that. I am not an absolutist like the born-again Christians and what I call born-again atheists*, so I feel no obligation to view myth as actual or putative absolute truth. I can appreciate myth for what it is - myth, a story or system of stories meant to convey a deeper truth.

So, yeah, I'm not likely to join the Freemasons - but I certainly respect them.

-Joe-

*Note that what I call "born-again" Christians and atheists, is not a term I would apply to all Christians and atheists. Some, maybe most, are intelligent, insightful, and open-minded. Many are able to acknowledge and criticize and reject and even poke fun at the shortcomings of the groups they come from. There's something good about coming from roots that are not perfect. It gives us humility and tolerance. Perfectionists tend to be boring and tediously critical, but those who rise from the muck are the salt of the earth.

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Joe, you could have just added your remarks to this otherwise closed thread without starting a new one, we know you know how to do this stuff still. Your remarks were moved here to keep the context but to stop the running battle. --mudelf