I think folkclubs have had the same kind of challenges as football.

In the 60's and 70's - it was a male preserve. men crowded onto the terraces after a couple of celebratory drink, and in the crush pissed up the back ofeach others legs.

A combination of disasters like Ibrox, and Hillsboro - plus perhaps hooliganism not making it safe for a family day out dictated there had to change.

I suppose it would be nice if there were thousands of people devoted to the old songs and unaccompanied singing - but the vast majority of people who went to folk clubs went because it was a good night out. the humour was more adult than Rolf harris and Val Doonican - and there were interesting artistes.

It was very different from the scene we read about in the States - where people went to night clubs like the gate of horn, The Blue Angel and Cafe Wah to hear Josh White, odetta, alongside sophisyicated comedians like Mort Sahl and Lenny Bruce.

Maybe we need to learn a little from abroad, look at the way they go on. I think ,aybe the answer to Jim's anguish, is something the Spanish Tableaux - where people do go for the specific reason of encountering etnic music.

How we present what the rest of us think of as folk music needs to be a different kind of venue. Somewhere without the wet lettuce image of family entertainment, but sophisticated enough to offer somthing make peole put down their phones.