I shall have more to say, but one point I would make is that we should not take the quotation from Harker as meaning either that the definition applies only to the collection of songs, and does not apply also to the book or article or web site or CD or whatever other medium through which the songs (whether complete or edited) are transmitted. Nor should it me thought that the definition does not cover the ideological framework or frameworks stated or implied through those other media.

Taking the definition in this way would undermine part of Harker's project, which is to lay out for inspection the political, and often nationalistic, ideologies of those who are doing the collection/printing/publishing/introducing/editing.

For as we all know, modern concepts of 'folk' seem to date from the 19th century. They were not current, for example, when Motherwell or Scott were doing their work. Part of what Harker is doing is setting out how people's ideas about the stuff they were collecting have changed over time.

Harker provides this background, and he does so through left-wing eyes, though in most cases his 'facts' about the histories of the mediators do stand up. People might not like to face the fact of Sharp's racist comments, or Motherwell's illiberal anti-Catholicism and political Conservatism, but they are there. And worth noting because they are of historical interest. Let us not forget that some of these folk songs also are of historical interest, which is why some of the collectors went round collecting them.

It isn't only people of Harker's political persuasion who think it is worth thinking about the contexts of those who collected and edited and regurgitated folk. Roud makes the point that it is worth knowing about in his very different book on Folk Song in England.

Regarding Jim Carroll's practice, I may have something more to say, but it will be in the context of the above comments. Particularly as they focus on changing and developing views of how to define and conceptualise this body of song (the old 'definitions argument), but also in terms of the basics of qualitative social research, since part and parcel of the work of Carroll and Mackenzie has been an attempt to go beyond song collection into some sort of broader theorising.