i'd agree with that pfr. clearly, many of us have spent a lifetime fighting the tories with principles and activism. we have lost every time and now is worse than ever. when you look at the state we are in with this government i'm afraid some of our principles look a bit self indulgent and fiddling while england burns.

Jim - of course i don't know for certain that labour would be able to address some of the problems of public services and low pay. but you wouldn't need full-on socialism to do this . when we get power the country is likely to be in a terrible state. any sensible government would have to try to tackle thse problems. even blair put loads of money into health, social care and education. some of that was ppi - a terrible error - i don't think we'll be making that mistake again. but we can never even begin to think about progres unless we win an election....