fair enough, nigel. we shouldn't forget that jeremy corbyn - who i supported- pissed me off when he sacked chris williamson, clive lewis and ken livingstone. he did have principles and honesty but did not have the courage to take on the odious john mann, margaret hodge and others.

and while we are at it, i've long thought that england is in a mess because the tories dealt with farage by adopting rather than challenging his xenophobia and racism. it took a while to dawn on me that that has also been the unspoken tactic of the labour party in recent years. they didn't want to upset gammons and white working class men in northern towns. see where that got us......