On a completely different note, though by the tone of this thread I expect to get toasted for this - and before I say it, let no one think I'm saying that any one culture, people, race, species, universe, circus, etc, has a monopoly on being depressed.

In regards to what the original Fergus quoted said, I've have recent and not so recent conversations with both American and Scottish friends since I've been here, regarding the atmosphere of Scotland in particular and Britain in general, and the melancholy that pervades it. Several American friends have said they often feel like the sir itself can be dark and heavy here, and that it's a very depressing place to be. Like anywhere, much of this is due to darkness and weather, but they insist that the area and atmosphere is more oppresive here than in Northern New England, where the weather is often terrible.

I'm of mixed opinions on this myself. I have in the past noted a very frustrating attitude of hopelessness and apathy in the people I live among in St Andrews - they don't like what's going on around them, but they won't even try to change it because they couldn't possibly and why bother anyway, all the good things are already gone. Now, I understand that it can often be frustrating to fight against the status quo, and often idealistic battles don't succeed. On the other hand, and maybe this is my young, idealist, rural American upbringing speaking, it's always worth trying! If you don't stand up and say anything, about even the things you feel strongest about, it's no wonder nothing changes. My friend Gary says it's just the Scottish way. I don't know - I've seen both sides. On one hand, the culture here can be oppresively single-minded, tradition oriented, mired in beauracracy, and not interested in change, variation, or hope. On the other, I also know that I've encountered lots of very cheerful, helpful people who, while they may not idealistically crusade all the time, very efficiently and purposefully take care of their own, and offer care and hospitality to others - not exactly despairing.

Unlike some friends who believe that the cloud of years of depressing history hangs over Scotland and renders the air oppressive, I've come to the general conclusion that it's an attitude thing. It certainly isn't only Scotland that has it, though, or only Britain either. It seems a pervading attitude particularly among the young in the poorer urban and rural areas, who aren't offered a good education or many opportunities, grew up in a heavily traditional and often close-minded society, and have lives both jaded and sheltered at the same time. Alcohol has much to do with it - there isn't much else to do when you're young and bored. Being idealistic doesn't last long in an atmosphere like that. I have friends who either came out irrationally cynical and judgemental, or lonely and immature, or both. Controlled by a government they feel that they have no part in and no say over, they get on with their lives, growing into people who go on, but don't bother with too much hope, because, like caviar, it doesn't seem to apply to them.

This isn't only in Britain. I've seen exactly the same in the US, in both rural and urban kids, with the same result in adults. So - Mudcatters have opinions on everything. Your opinions here? UK Catters- do you think Britain is a depressing place to live? Have you found anywhere else to be better? Do you think it depends on the person? Attitude? Government? Society? etc... Please understand I do realise my own UK experiences come from a fairly limited group of people, in both age and background, but not, I think, so limited that my observations don't have merit.

Now that I've rambled on in thread creep for ages, tell me what you think.

-J