Hi Ewan,

I don't want to revisit the Musicians V Singers debate although I feel uncomfortable about the "Plague of Fiddlers" comment.... Incidentally, I've also seen the same thing happen the other way around when a few musicians are having a quiet tune and singers have attended "en masse".

However, it's basically all about good manners and respect whatever view you adopt.

Sandy Bell's began to become a predominantly "tune oriented" pub from the seventies onwards although there were still singers who attended there. These days, you will still get some songs as well depending on what night you go.

The main difference is that things are much more organised these days and, as you say, the main session musicians are "booked" to play and they all have their own "This is my" nights. Some are more welcoming that others but this happens in many establishments.

In Edinburgh, singing is usually welcome in The Captains and The Royal Oak and there are other possibilities too. Probably even more now than back in the day.

Re the Royal Oak, I recall that one of the reasons it took off in the early eighties was that Sandy Bells wasn't that conducive to singing even then. Also, The Waverley Bar had declined in popularity too. there was still music there but it tended to be more formal. So the casual and cosy "wee room" downstairs in the Oak was ideal at the time for singers whether unaccompanied or with minimum instrumentation.

Having said all that, I agree that establishments do change over time for better or worse. However, others usually emerge to take their place. It's constantly changing but there's no point on us all forever dwelling on the past.