Helen, thanks. I usually don't engage with dick miles' desire to start an argument and I have said my piece here, making the argument and he can stew on it from here on.

The thread was resolved some time back finding a name for one and a notation for the other tune on the original query. I indulged in some diversion, allowing me to post some, perhaps useful, further information but it had run its course by the time the usual dick barged in to start an argument based on nothing but his own ineptitude and misunderstanding.