thanks Steve for your clarification of the list your were kind enough to provided for those seeking places to perform. And thanks also to all else for your input, especially Desert Dancer, Les from Hull, Marty D, Fortunato and Bill D -- cooler heads prevail.

I too am a performer with two groups and have not, can not and will not give up my day job because I know what it is to make a living as a performer while trying to pay my now mortgage (past -rent.) We all make conscious decisions based on the information at hand.

One of the biggest problems in New York City is that there is so much competition - on any given night hundreds (perhaps even thousands) of venues run events, and the bottom line as the owner of an establishment in NYC is making money to pay the rent and have some pay for yourself -- difficult at best in this day where real estate in Manhattan has soared to new heights. More clubs close than open each year and many clubs that once were have made way for new high rises.

I do think on the whole that musicians are underpaid. But realisitically, you can't pay out what doesn't come in.

Do I think there aren't owners of venues who are greedy? there probably are many who are.

Would I like to see more venues for quality folk. Certainly.

Was I suggesting we all join the same club -- not necessarily (not that i would mind having many new members in Pinewoods to help the club grow and yes, even change) I was suggesting that if a person is not willing to devote the time and energy it takes to help effect change, then he/she shouldn't gripe about it. Get involved!

A thousand songs can be written about what is wrong with this or that -- and that is good -- get the message out -- but if that's all we do, nothing will change. Writing and singing songs is not enough to make a change -- getting involved in whatever you believe will help to change the things you write about, will help.

and making statements just to get a rise out of people truly infuriates me -- so you have done your job.

end of soapbox -- back on the ground - and back to making music, enjoying friends, and working to effect change.

Joy