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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
Whistle Stop BS: Political: IRA, Israeli developments (39) RE: BS: Political: IRA, Israeli developments 25 Oct 01


Susan, that was a very nice thing to say. Thank you, and thanks also to "nobody" and Doug for their concurrence. When we are able to keep our discourse civil and constructive, this is a great place to hang out.

McGrath, I think the US role in Northern Ireland's troubles may be greater than you acknowledge. The IRA has long received most of its financial support from private citizens in the US. The US government also facilitated the agreement on a framework for the reduction of hostilities and the formation of a coalition government. The US is now engaged in a war in Afghanistan (with strong support from Great Britain, also a significant player in North Ireland), as a central part of a larger effort to fight terrorism worldwide, and there is an unprecedented unanimity of opinion in the US in support of this effort. By sending a strong and public signal that the Bush Administration (currently enjoying overwhelming support in the polls) feels that the IRA must disarm in order to revive the coalition government, the US has done a great deal to guide the IRA to the decision they have just made; the IRA realizes that US opinion about its legitimacy will be undercut, and its funding sources will largely dry up, if it does not make a move like this. The US certainly has not done this alone, but I believe its role has been substantial.

Ard mhacha, I wasn't suggesting that the IRA is the "bad" side and the loyalists are the "good side" -- far from it. Speaking as an outsider, I think there is plenty of blame to go around. There is a long history of oppression of the Catholics at play here, and I think that a lot of the actions of people on the Orange side, from past to present, have been pretty unforgivable. I also deplore the terrorist acts committed by the IRA over the years. One way to look at the current IRA disarmament is that it is calling the loyalists' bluff -- once the IRA is disarmed, if the loyalists don't show a willingness to clamp down hard on violence from their side, it will be pretty apparent where the blame lies. And the loyalists certainly do not want world opinion to shift towards the IRA.

As for Israel and Palestine, it's a complicated situation, and I don't claim to be an expert. From my vantage point in the US, it seems to me that the quest for a perfect justice at this stage is futile; there are so many "rights" and "wrongs" in this situation that the scales will never really be balanced. For purely pragmatic reasons, both sides have to exercise greater restraint, and/or impose greater restraints on the more militant elements under their control ("control" may be putting it too strongly in the case of the Palestinians, but you know what I mean). I see excesses on both sides, now and in the past, and a general failure of continued retributive killings to correct the problem. Israel's settlements in occupied areas have to be stopped and reversed, and its incursions in force into Palestinian areas in successive rounds of revenge killings must also stop. Also, as painful as it may be to accept, Israel is the only combatant in this struggle that has a functioning government at the moment, so it has a greater ability to order a pullback and be confident that its orders will be followed. A lot of Israel's suffering is due to the fact that the Palestinians are more a collection of factions than a true government, and the situation will not improve through continued destabilization and weakening of the only faction that has a shot at forming a working government (the PLO). In a campaign like this one, a fragmented enemy may be a more dangerous enemy -- they can't win, they can't lose, and they can't reach an effective settlement.

All in all, I do think that the enunciation of a clear and vigorous anti-terrorist policy by the US may have a lot of benefits in areas of the world other than Afghanistan, and it's clear to me that there are a number of ways to pursue this policy that do not involve military action (although I believe that our current military efforts in Afghanistan are justified and necessary). Again, I appreciate everyone's discussion of this -- I'm learning all the time.




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