Well Alistair, as a socialist I want common ownership of the means of production, and I suppose fucking can be defined as a means of production, so I suppose I must be a loser?

Actually I'm not sure what your point is, I too was a union rep (unpaid) at various levels from local branch to national, over twenty years, and one thing I never expected was for union members to be saints. However, for a lot of people, the union movement is or was, about hope.

I say 'was' because the tactics of the 'New right' have succeeded, at least in NZ and I believe in the UK, in changing perceptions to the point where an "us and them" situation is seen as the only valid viewpoint, a situation which the establishment knows it can win. Working class people are no less selfish than any others, but if we are to prevent future generations from having to "..take up a gun a protest the injustices that are perpetrated everyday by corporate bloodsuckers and (their) parasites.." we have to find other ways of re-distributing wealth and power and the union movement for all its faults is I believe the best we have got.

Pete M