Hi Alistair, did you go to the Ronald Reagan school for the mathematically gifted? You know - "Imagine the economy as a big cake, cut it up and you have half for the national debt, half for defence and the other half for social services."? (grin)

Seriously though you are right, any movement by the powerless, whether pacific or revolutionary, if it looks like succeeding, will by definition attract people who seek power and who will subvert the movement to their own ends and ensure that the powerless remain so. Ethan is also correct in that we should not make the mistake of assuming that what we do as social worker, union organiser or whatever, is in a watertight box. In practical terms I no longer expect to change the world as we hoped back in the sixties, but if we make life better for one person or help others to understand the inequity of their situation, we have made a difference. Given the amount of effort put in by the government and corporates respectively to tell us that we bleeding heart liberals should "keep out of politics" and "live in the real world" I think perhaps we make more difference than we sometimes give ourselves credit for.

Pete M

PS Alistair, Fink I'll 'ave ter watch me grammer from nahron!