Stupid to use such a broad brush Doug R. I am concerned with the rights of all, victims and criminals. Its just a lot easier for people to mentally let the rights of the criminal slide because "they deserve it". Wolfgang's post summed up a lot of my thoughts on this issue. Establish the fact of the crime first, then, with a clear perpetrator and victim, you can discuss their respective rights. What is weird is that many people who are support retributive justice instead of restorative justice do so in the name of the victims. Retributive justice doesn't give the victim anything. Restorative justice often attempts to heal the victim.