Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
GUEST,Penny S. (elsewhere) BS: Warning LOTR return of the king (74* d) RE: BS: Warning LOTR return of the king 21 Jan 03

OK, not so much warriors, as using the sword, which Frodo and Sam do. Agreed on the hobbits back in the Shire, but that's where the rural folk good, townies bad attitude comes in. And that's wrong - did anyone see the documentary about Brixton, in which the researcher wandered about for hours and hours waiting for his laptop to be nicked, while all the passing townies gave him excellent advice about looking after it? And it's not until the shire hobbits start sword using that they can deal with Sharkey. Both they, and the Riders, depend more than I imagine the early English actually did on upperclass leadership. A fault also in Homer, I grant. But these weren't things I noticed until the film - I don't know why I missed it in the book - didn't hear the accents, I suppose.
I believe that an early heroic society in which the Theoden/Grima situation occurred would have some heavy politicking going on back stage - the group that wants to replace Theoden, the more loyal group that wants to get rid of Grima - it might not succeed, but someone would have tried. The English (whoever they were, but the society Tolkein based his world on) were made up of individual farmers with responsibilities for personal decisions, and their society had a lot of local talking shops. However lordship was exercised, and was developing, there were opportunities for acting about things that were wrong at the top. The Riders would have been sheep.
And Little Nell reacted to Quilp with more effectiveness than Eowyn did to Grima in the film. I didn't get that feeling from the book. I think it would be more effective if Grima did not look like a poisonous little creep. Evil is insidious - but less so when it comes with a big flashing banner announcing its evilness. Surely it is more effective when it looks like a good - as the ring did to Boromir and the palantir to Denethor?

Taking up the sword feels to me a bit like trying to use the ring - though I'm not sure how else you deal with Shelob! But refusing to give in to evil - and I agree with Kevin on that one doesn't need a sword in the hand.

I omitted mentioning Galadriel - I have never been able to get inside her- she knows too much that is not given in the book, she is too powerful - some interpreters compare her position in Middle Earth with that of Mary in Tolkein's Catholic church life. Not identifiable with. The identifiability with (yrch) of a character depends on what is given of their personality - be it male, female, alien or beast. Me, I'm Eeyore. How can you tell yourself stories about being Galadriel. Rosie Gamgee, maybe.


Back to the Main Forum Page

By clicking on the User Name, you will requery the forum for that user. You will see everything that he or she has posted with that Mudcat name.

By clicking on the Thread Name, you will be sent to the Forum on that thread as if you selected it from the main Mudcat Forum page.
   * Click on the linked number with * to view the thread split into pages (click "d" for chronologically descending).

By clicking on the Subject, you will also go to the thread as if you selected it from the original Forum page, but also go directly to that particular message.

By clicking on the Date (Posted), you will dig out every message posted that day.

Try it all, you will see.