"John Hardly, capital punishment, even when done with due process is sometimes the taking of an innocent life. The courts are not infallible, & do not necessarily have all the evidence. Check it out"
This doesn't change the point I am making. In fact, I even said "You may disagree with the usefulness of capital punishment, or even find it immoral -- but you really shouldn't have trouble understanding how one might make a distinction". You obviously understand my distinction. You are merely adding another issue that still doesn't alter the logic of my point -- that capital punishment can make a mistake.

"And if I said "*Amputation* should be safe, available and RARE," would you call that "having it both ways?" Amputation is indeed a bad thing, but sometimes it's the best you can do".

So you are saying that an abotion is an amputation? See, the whole point of the pro-life movement is that we don't see it that way. We see TWO lives in a pregnancy.

Are you saying it should be rare because it is an operation? Or are you saying it should be rare because you also understand that a pregnancy represent two people?

"If pro-life advocates put their actions where their mouth is they'd each adopt at least one "undesirable" baby, and have funerals for miscarriages. Hardly any do."
Lots do and lots do. But even if they did not adopt a single unwanted, undesirable child, it might make them less honrable -- but not philosophically wrong. And I have personally attended three funerals for miscarriages.

"And they'd vote for a low national speed limit, and vote against capital punishment."
I covered the capital punishment thing -- it's a distinction of innocent vs guilty. Besides, many pro-lifers actually are anti capital punishment. I have my own problems with it from a practical point of view -- I don't think we are capable of fielding a clear-thinking jury these days, and that makes me squeamish about capital punishmnet -- but it doesn't alter the philosphical and logical underpinnings of pro-life. It's actually a red herring. If you understand the distinction between innocent and guilty (and I think I pointed out that you do), comparison of abortion to capital punishment is merely a red herring.

The speed limit thing -- I can understand the connection but logically you would have to accept the premise that lower speed limits save lives. I've seen stats that counter that notion.

"John Hardly's judgment seems clouded by emotion. He also seems one of the most ignorant men I've ever come across" "... even someone as brain-dead as yourself, John Hardly"
How very sweet of you to say! (I had to look back to see if my posts contained any personal attacks. Didn't find one.) Should I be unemotional?

"Since when do all women get pregnant as a result of voluntary recreational activity? You mentioned rape just a few   posts earlier; surely even someone as brain-dead as yourself, John Hardly, can be   made to understand   that pregnancy can be a result of rape? Should such a pregnancy   be carried to term? What about when a girl is forcibly raped   by her own father   or brother?   It happens. Should   these products of incest AND rape   be carried to term?   What about women raped during in vasion during wartime? Ever been raped, John? I didn't   think so."
You are jumping to a conclusion that, again, doesn't alter the logic of any point I've made. You are merely adding one more thing into the mix -- rape. You never asked me if I thought there should be any exceptions to a pro-life position. Of course I do. And most pro-lifers do as well. And I think my exceptions are still philosophically consistent. In cases of the life of the mother at risk -- historically no government has ever been against the concept of self-defense. In the case of rape , the choice for the life altering--and risky business of pregnancy was not the woman's, therefore it is understandable that she should have the choice of whether or not to shoulder the risk (element of self-defense).

Again, it shouldn't matter if I had been raped or not for me to be able to determine that rape is wrong. It shouldn't matter if I had been a slave or not to know if slavery is wrong. I shouldn't have had to be robbed to know that robbery is wrong......I could go on.