"John Hardly keeps insisting he is using LOGIC. Yet he sounds   like a fanatic to me."

Well then , peg, discuss the issue. Point out my flaws. I'm game -- hell, there's lots smarter people than me here on the 'cat.

Rapaire,

Yup. Just another reason why Bush is not a favorite with conservatives -- never has been, and that disfavor is growing (and that growning disfavor is one of many reasons I think Bush will probably lose in 2004)