The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #63833   Message #1040314
Posted By: Malcolm Douglas
23-Oct-03 - 09:04 AM
Thread Name: Origins: Knick Knack Patt/ddy Whack -This Old Man
Subject: RE: Origins: Knick Knack Patt/ddy Whack -This Old Man
No evidence as yet of the song prior to c.1870 (unless the Sharp MS or the Moffat/Kidson book have further information); it may well be older, but we don't know that. No evidence either, so far, to connect it either to sailors or to Liverpool, or that the term "paddywhack" occurs in English versions prior to Seeger. Gilchrist makes the same connection with bones or castanets (both often called "knackers") as has "Davetnova".

Anne Gilchrist's nursemaid was from Wales, but could have learned the song either there or in Lancashire; not from a printed source, though, as she didn't learn to read until later. The tune is not the same as that popular now. The tune given by Kidson is, according to Gilchrist, "the Italian Montferina - a dance-tune much used for nursery-songs and games since it came to England in 1810." I don't have any information on that at present.