The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #64446   Message #1054750
Posted By: GUEST
16-Nov-03 - 12:47 PM
Thread Name: Jesus - Did he exist?
Subject: RE: Jesus - Did he exist?
Not angered at all Mr. Hardly, although I understand that is what you would like to believe about me.

Would you be willing to define the "collective sensibility among secularists" you are basing your assumptions upon for us? It would make it much easier to converse if I knew what that collective sensibility is you believe to be commonly shared by secularists, as I, a self-proclaimed secularist, am aware of none.

BTW, you are jumping to some rather strange conclusions if you are assuming that my equating religion with mythology presumes that all religion and all mythology are false. I'm guessing (and freely admit I could well be guessing wrong) you might be equating the word "secular" with "secular humanism" which is usually defined as being antagonistic towards religion. I am not antagonistic towards religion, but towards religious dogma, as I am dogma of all kinds.

There are many possible explanations for human behavior, as there are many explanations for physical phenomena--including unusual and strange physical phenomena and human behavior--that can be explained to different people's satisfaction alternatively by theology, philosophy, physics, ethics, astronomy, environmental activism, social justice work, all sorts of things.

I don't claim to be certain of anything, and the older I get, and the more I learn, the less certain about things I become. But that doesn't mean I'll ever become religious. Why? It is based upon a shoddy foundation of faith first, and when that fails, the assertion that religious belief should be considered equal with the considerable body of knowledge we now possess to counter religious belief as fact or truth (even truth with a capital T, and the word "spiritual" in front of it).

I, and millions of other secularists have seen precious little evidence that organized religion has been a positive force for humanity, regardless of the religion, or the good intentions of the religiously inclined. Quite the opposite, in fact.

If my saying so troubles the waters for the religiously inclined, so be it. You and Susan are certainly intelligent enough to appreciate that my refusal to accept your religious world view doesn't mean I am seeking ways to outlaw your beliefs. Illegitimize them in the sense that they are now hopelessly outdated, yes. But outlaw them? Never. That would be to commit the same sins of the religious followers, something secularists I know have no interest in pursuing. Better we let the religions die their own natural deaths, as they will inevitably.

Christianity is certainly on it's way out in it's stronghold areas of Europe and North America, thank goodness. Or hadn't you heard?