El Greko...I am sure Martin & I WOULD have an overlap in what we recognize as folk...but that is not what we are at odds about. It is the 50% we might not agree on that is the rub.

You use the example "you say tomaytoes, and I say tomahtoes..."...but if we go shopping, each would likely bring back the same basic vegetable, and all would be pleased...but if Martin told me of a nice 'folk' club or concert, and when I paid my admission, I discovered it was mostly singer-songwriter and 'modernized' songs, (which I 'usually' do not seek out) I would be disappointed. That is really all my continued concern is about....that is, a wish to have an easily usable term to refer to the older, mostly non-commercial music with themes and tune styles that is 'different' than what is being done today.

Yes, I am quite aware that a lot of the more recent music owes a large debt to 'folk/trad'...and that the line dividing them can be quite fuzzy at the edges, but we all KNOW that there is a difference between a concert of sea songs and ballads with background information and singable choruses, and a concert by a young woman singing plaintively of her 'relationships'! I want the sign on the door to warn me which to expect! "Folk music tonight" just doesn't do it....

I can live with the fuzziness and blurring, because I ALWAYS realize that music does, indeed, change and grow. But for many people, (like me), it would be convenient if the dual terms "folk/traditional" were to AT LEAST remain a referent to "relatively" older music & styles, much as the Antique market has a yardstick to designate what gets allowed into the category!

Why do I keep making these points on an irregular basis, when I know I'm fighting a losing battle? *wry smile*...I dunno, just stubborn, I guess. I don't like gratuitous watering down of meaningful categories. (Oh, my...there I go...using 'gratuitious' and sounding elitist again, I suppose *grin*)

ah, well...I guess I've beaten this dead horse about enough for now (and it didn't sing a note!) *pushing soap box into the corner* (feel free to use it...the Mudcat soapbox is always available)