brucie,

Some points with regard to your post:

"Those who think the American/British presence in Iraq is totally honourable are deluding themselves."

And those who think that the American/British presence in Iraq is totally dishonourable are not?

Through the ousting of Saddam Hussein and the establishment of a democracy in Iraq would prove beneficial to that entire region.

What strategic position can be gained for the United States of America that it has not already held and enjoyed for the past forty years? If it is about oil, and it is not, there are far more relevant places in this world for the US

"The invaders have spent a considerable sum of money. I think they would want that back. How do you think they will get that back? Master Card?"

brucie, ould son, the amount that this has cost is miniscule compared to what the middle-east has cost the US in terms of supporting Israel and Egypt over the years. All frontline Arab states (a phrase from the bad old days of Nasser's pan-arabic dream, followed ardently by Saddam Hussein) with the exception of Syria have reached some form of agreement with Israel. The most hard-line Arab states, who openly advocated the destruction of the state of Israel were Iraq under Saddam Hussein's leadership, and Iran. Now one of those has gone, the other is crumbling from within - can the advantage of a shift in viewpoint - even if it it is to one of total neutrality not be seen as an advantage to all in the region. Because the kicker here for those Arab states and Palestinian terrorist organisations is that the right for Israel to exist is guaranteed not only by the United Nations, but specifically by the United States of America.

"This is not an attack on you; it is a statement about the folks who are to the right of me." No, it is a statement about your perception of the folks to the right of you.

You advocate that we should, ".....stop trying to whitewash American motives", OK that is fair enough with me, but at the same time, "let's stop painting them blacker than is need be".

Global economics are here to stay, the world got smaller we are now living in a village compared to the city our fore-fathers and theirs lived in.