Reading through the list I canot help but think that many of them apply also to the current model of the Mudcat forum. I certainly think that 'WE' of the thread title - is all of us - wherever we live.

This is not an attempt to 'have a go' or to link - what most of us would accept as serious political issues - with the activities and mindsets individuals here and it is not really helpful to call anyone facist or indeed to call them any name at all.

Even in Nazi Germany, there are many stories of people who refused to believe that the government was that bad- sometimes until it was too late to flee.

The lesson that seems painfully slow for us to learn is that folk that turn out to be facist monsters like Saddam - are not born wearing a black-shirt with a label on their forehead. We allow these people to develop and encourage the systems that they create. We do this again and again - ignoring all the tragic lessons of history.

The answer is to accept that the problem is not confined to states and to the world stage but that these institutions are just scaled-up versions of your work-place, school and yes - even the current model this forum. And that we must all deal with it when we find it - before it becomes too big - and deals with us instead.