The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #66232   Message #1101055
Posted By: WFDU - Ron Olesko
25-Jan-04 - 01:59 PM
Thread Name: BS: Pete Rose - Yes or No ?
Subject: RE: BS: Pete Rose - Yes or No ?
Mike, being a Mets fan is not about winning - it couldn't be or we would go crazy!! No condolences necessary, I'm still proud of my team's history. I'm just glad I wasn't born a Yankee's fan. I try to be open minded and liberal, but I just hate being in the same room as them. Sorry if that is your leaning!!!   :)

Seriously, you do make some very good points about dividing up the records before 1947 when Robinson broke the barrier. However, what year would you really start? African-American's made it into the league very slowly. The Yankees were one of the last teams to integrate, followed by the Red Sox. Even in the early 60's some teams were still lilly white.

I have an edition of the Encyclopedia that you mention from 1990. I do not see the players stats being broken down to pre-1903 records. I don't know if that has changed.

You can't dismiss the record keeping and ballparks of the Negro Leagues as being bogus without explaining why they aren't. The Negro Leagues did not maintain the same records as the Majors. The black press did a great job during the 1920's of reporting on the game, but during the depression their were cutbacks and games were not often reported. The Negro League rosters varied in size based on the economics of the team. They used a different baseball and the games were known for hitters. Shutouts were rare, no-hitters even rarer. The stadiums were different in some cases. There was a team in St.Louis that played with the left field foul poll estimated at 250 feet. Even I probably could hit a few out at that distance.

Again, I'm not diminishing the talent that existed. There were incredible stars. However, the encyclopedia that you mention does not include the Federal League stats, nor the Mexican Leagues in which many MLB players jumped to in the 40's.

It is impossible to right a wrong. Getting back to the original theme of this thread, the Hall of Fame has taken steps to recognize these players - such as the already mentioned Josh Gibson and recognition of his home runs.

One wrong we can keep right - that would be keeping Rose out of the Hall.