well, Martin Gibson...I am glad that I often get to argue, negotiate, AND do business with folks that don't see those definitions like you do.

Many of this world's troubles are due to folks who "... really believe in what (they) are talking about and ... KNOW (they) are right.." meeting-- and all refusing to back down or look at the other's point of view!

   And negotiating MEANS going through a process in which mutually tolerable terms are achieved..it almost never involves one person or group simply steamrolling another.

It is always nice to 'win' and get a contract or point of law or concession agreed to by your opponent....but feeling like 'winning' is all there is leads to disapointments. Yeah, you can be 'successful' in everything from business to basketball to saving souls...but not everyone measures success exactly the same way.

If you have never learned anything new from losing an argument, you must be either VERY smart...or very stubborn and inflexible....and I have a guess which.