Yawn. Martin, all I can ever think to say to you anymore is ...dude.

   Nerd, incidental to this discussion, I like your style, including your embarrassing admissions, apologies, revisions, your claim to be a dumbass. It seems you have a decent perspective on being involved in a dispute.

Carolc I think your response about American lands sounds both flippantly pat, and desperately logical. It belittles the question of human rights for you to deny that the question means more to you than a material piece of rented land that you could somehow give back. Nobody can. Those people are dead. Everyone's just renting the land. There wouldn't be any trailer on wheels. Anyway, the question means more to me, and I have to try to figure how to properly understand in myself the evils that were and are part of the deal, if I hope for anything better. I guess you're above history, somewhere, looking down at Israel.