In fairness, GUEST is right that Nader was a significant force in creating those good programs he talked about.

However, none of it would be law without Congress.

To say, "Nader accomplished more than Congress" is absurd. Most of his accomplishments he accomplished only because Congress helped him do so.

Also, to say "Congresspeople's accomplishments count for less because it is their business to accomplish things," which is what GUEST said in his post of 11 Mar 04 - 08:58 AM, is absurd. By these standards, anyone has accomplished more than a Congressperson!

Finally, GUEST likes to redefine the terms of an argument so that he always wins. Two examples:

"There are no leftists in government. There are a handful (and I do mean on two hands, max) of House reps who are left of center, but as Richard points out, they aren't running the government (the executive branch does that, remember?)

So from one sentence to the next, the question has gone from "are there any leftists in government?" to "are there leftists in the executive branch, which runs the government?" Change the question after you ask it and my right answer becomes wrong. Big deal.

And by the way, GUEST, the executive branch does NOT run the government. No one branch "runs" the government. That's the whole point of having branches. Honestly, are you from some other country that has a different system? Why don't you know this sixth grade citizenship lesson?   

Second example:

First you said that:

Nader "accomplished more genuine change for the better than all the politicians presently serving in our nation's capital combined."

Then when in answer to your stupid challenge I mention some leftists who, no matter what your twisted logic can come up with, ARE in the government, you first change the rules as I pointed out above, discounting them because they're in the wrong branch of government, and then say:

"No one on the list of people you mention--not one of those politicians--has been involved in anything that rises to the level of change that has been brought about through the efforts of Ralph Nader. Not one."

Once again, first you claimed that Nader had done more than ALL OF THE CURRENT MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNMENT COMBINED, then claim you are proven right by making a claim that NO SINGLE LEFTIST has done more than he has.

Even if you are right about no single leftist (which I will not concede as yet, though it is possible) you are wrong about Nader having done more than the whole government combined.

Sorry GUEST, your rhetorical mumbo-jumbo won't work on me.