Some graphic reports in the British papers from the young men who have been released after being held prisoner in Guantanamo Bay for so long. Pretty graphic and appalling stuff it is. I'm reminded of accounts by hostages like Brian Keenan who were held prisoner by terrorists in Lebanon - though the conditions in these current cases appear to have been even worse.
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Do I get the impressioin that for Teribus, so long as it is possible to find someone else with an even worse record, it doesn't really matter that much what gets done by "our side"? (McGrath)

McGrath, you are the who has started the comparisons in your very first post and later go on doing further comparisons. Why do you wonder now that someone else reads what you offer for comparison and finds your own comparative evaluation of what you have read is not really backed up by the original documents.

As for your repeated comparison with the treatment of the German prisoners (you write 'Nazi prisoners', but I'm sure you know that not all of them were Nazis) after World War II: Let us skip the Eastern Ally for everybody knows that of their prisoners far less than one fourth did come back, most of them in 1955, ten years after the end of the war, roughly twelve years after being captured on average.

The number of prisoners who died in the hands of Western Allies is given with up to one Million (an exaggeration I guess and I admit the feeding at first was a real problem). There are innumerous reports of maltreatment, though I must say that by far the most of these reports are from prisoners in the hands of The Americans and the French, not from those in the hands of the British.

To give you an impression I cite (in my translation) from a letter of the council of the EKD (the united protestant churches in Germany) to the Allied forces:

"30th of January, 1946

Since nine months the weapons are silent...In the last couple of months former German soldiers have been returned from captivity, frequently in a wretched state. They have brought to the families the last sometimes uncertain news from tens of thousands comrades died in the camps. The reports we enclose with this letter are just a small selection from the daily incoming news and calls for help. ...Nothing is so tormenting like being in uncertainty about the fate of the dearest and nearest....

Please help to remove the obstacles preventing Millions of German prisoners from being allowed to write home and to receive news from home. Take care that the names of the innumerable many who have died in captivity will be announced. Ensure a humane treatment of all prisoners."

My impression is, McGrath, that you have used this particular comparison not from knowledge but just bacause 'even the Nazi prisoners were treated better' sounds so good. Another trick by you in using words to get an effect is your choice of the thread title. By the use of the word 'survivors' you cleverly and nearly subliminally induce the feeling in the reader that surviving Guantanamo is something which is rare and in need of special mention.

In general, though I have contributed here too, I do think that the game of comparisons with very different situations started here with the first post is futile. The conditions at Guantanomo should be judged by the usual standards of treating prisoners in the USA. Compared with that I find that the physical harm and hardship is not worse than the usual US prison conditions (which are substandard from a European point of view, by the way). The psychological hardship, however, is much worse, for there is no appeal possible, no trial and no clearly communicated end of the term. This treatment of prisoners in Guantanomo I consider to be in blatant violation of human rights. There should be no place of earth free from protection by the law. The USA have created such a place in Guantanamo and later commentaries about international law will use this example to show what never should be allowed anywhere anymore.

Wolfgang